107: Why a Good Lawyer is Crucial in a Real Estate Transaction with Pushor Mitchell LLP's Patrick Bobyn

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Welcome back to the Colonial Real
Estate Podcast.

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I'm your mortgage broker host,
Taylor Atkinson.

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Drywall dust, I love it.

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Yeah, how's it going over there?

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You're on time and on budget like
all renovations.

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I mean, it's a value add for your
clients.

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Like, you know, it's nice to have
a real estate agent that has done

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renovations or gone through like
permanent process and can kind of

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understand some of the pain
points.

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Yeah.

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It's harder like when you're

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living in the home, but it's not
really affecting your living

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conditions and your kids.

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Yeah, totally.

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Yeah.

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And you guys are converting it to

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a suite, right?
A basement suite?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I mean, your kitchen in the

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main is awesome, but it's like
that was pre -kids and...

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You know, it's like something that
you have a lot of passion about

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because you're going to be using
it like immediately.

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You wear a basement suite.

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You're like, huh.

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Yeah.

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Well, good luck, man.

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Yeah.

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Speaking of luck, wearing a Blue

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Jays hat today.

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We're heading down actually

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tomorrow to see game four.

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So they need some luck at this

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point.

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They're not playing as they should

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be.

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They just need to start hitting

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the ball.

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So I'm confident they'll win too

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in Seattle.

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And then they'll bring it back to

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Toronto for Game 7.

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Okay, well, we want to jump into

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this show.

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We recorded with Patrick Bobbin

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from Pusher & Mitchell and Kelowna
Chamber of Commerce.

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So with Pusher & Mitchell, he's a
lawyer there, partner, and then

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Chamber of Commerce, he's vice
president on the board.

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I work a lot with Pat and he is
awesome.

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And I think one of the big things
that I want to communicate, and

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we've talked about this a bunch on
the show before, is like you

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really want a team of
professionals that are on the same

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page.

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They communicate with each other

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like they're working collectively.

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get the job done you know we have

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some great lawyers in town to do
these transactions but yeah i've

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worked with pat a ton and uh yeah
his team's awesome i can't say

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enough about them so just find
someone you trust and you feel is

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going to get the job done because
you do not want things blowing up

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at the last minute and somebody's
law firm not being able to handle

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it so maybe you can speak to that
as well because i know yeah times

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get a little stressful at the end
of it Yeah.

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Prusher & Mitchell is a huge firm.

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Like they do everything.

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They've been in Kelowna for 50
years or something.

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And yeah, they're involved in the
community as well.

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Like, you know, for Pat to be in
with the Chamber of Commerce, like

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working with small businesses kind
of has his finger on the pulse.

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So I brought up some awesome
points near the end of the show

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too.

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Like pretty interesting

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suggestions on clauses or how to
structure deals.

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So yeah, I think well worth the
listen.

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You guys are going to enjoy the
show.

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I don't know if he has time for
it, man.

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Like he's got two young kids as
well.

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His wife's a lawyer who's an
amazing lawyer as well.

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They're doing great things in the
community, but yeah, I can't say

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enough good things about that.

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Like he's just been awesome to

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work with.

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So yeah.

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Okay, Patrick Bobbin, it's been a
long time coming trying to get you

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on the show, but glad we could
sync up schedules.

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How are you?
I'm doing well.

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Thanks, Taylor.

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Matt, it's great to be on here.

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And it has been a long time
coming, but really looking forward

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to it.

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I think good busy guests are hard

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to get.

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So yeah, you tick the box.

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Maybe we'll just jump straight
into, I mean, you kind of have two

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roles that we wanted to discuss
today.

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And one is on the Chamber of
Commerce.

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So can you kind of give us a high
level view of...

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Yeah, what your role is there and
what is the Chamber of Commerce?

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No, absolutely.

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Great question in that regard.

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And for those who don't know,
Kelowna Chamber of Commerce,

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business community is really what
that is.

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And so the Chamber is where
businesses of all sizes, from sole

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proprietorship to hundreds of
employees, can be a member in

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terms of what the Chamber
provides.

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I would say are three main things.

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Advocacy, benefits.

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and connections and so depending
on what a business is looking for

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whether it be all three or one of
those things the chamber provides

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that where our intent our revision
is to be the catalyst of the

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business community and so my role
i'm a director it's a volunteer

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board but typically there is a
lawyer or lawyers on that board we

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actually have three right now to
practicing the smart ones, not

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practicing, but something that my
firm push for Mitchell has been

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involved with for a long period of
time.

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We typically have a lawyer on that
board.

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And so it's my turn right now.

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Like you must have your finger on

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the pulse in terms of small
businesses in Kelowna.

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Like what is the current vibe?
Are people worried economically?

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Are people thriving?
Do people see opportunities?

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Like, yeah, what are the
discussions you guys are having?

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No, it's a good question.

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It really is something that it's

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not a one size fits all, but.

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A big part of our model is we

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intend to be the voice for the
business community.

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And so really, I'd say a big thing
we do is listen.

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We always say, what is keeping you
up at night to our members?

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And there's, we have over a
thousand members.

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So you think of the business
community, I mean, that impacts a

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lot of different sectors.

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I think what you see right now,

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and in a lot of ways, not
surprising, but it's just that

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business uncertainty.

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You look at the States, what's

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going on down there and the ripple
effect that it has up here.

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You look at rising costs.

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A lot of business owners, big and

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smaller saying, my margins are
shrinking and shrinking and

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shrinking.

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Expenses are going up.

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How do I keep the lights on going
forward?

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So while there is a lot of
optimism and there's a lot of

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great success stories in this
town, I do think our business

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community is still very much in
that cloud of uncertainty in terms

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of going to 2026 and what that
looks like going forward.

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And so the Chamber's role is
really, going back to those three

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things, advocacy.

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What are the issues?

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What are keeping our members up at
night?

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How can we relay that to the
proper channels?

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Is that a municipal issue?
Is that something that we should

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be going to the federal level,
proposing a policy or trying to

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get a distinguished speaker in to
talk about that issue?

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Those are all things as the
chamber we try to facilitate.

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That's awesome.

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And so I guess in the last couple

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of years, I'm just kind of
assuming, but have we seen kind of

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tourism go down, you know, forest
fires, Airbnb, stuff like that?

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Like, is that what is also
impacting small businesses or do

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you guys have some of that data?
yeah there's a lot of good

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intersections so Tourism Kelowna
is really focused on the tourism

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side of things but we very much
work hand in hand and there's a

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lot of issues that are relevant
for their members and our members

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and we also share a lot of members
as you can appreciate there in

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that regard so I think certainly
you look at this past year and

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especially with the states per se
and you know that's a big part of

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our tourism there was concern
there now obviously I think on the

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flip side that did promote cross
jurisdiction in terms of Canada

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and Canadians coming out this way,
which is good.

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But like you said, there's always
barriers we have to consider here.

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There's the short term rentals,
which is a big part of our

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community.

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And our mayor actually spoke about

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that a couple of weeks ago at one
of our chamber luncheons and

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hurdles in that regard.

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And we're always asking what more

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can we do to promote tourism
within the city?

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You kind of hit a buzz topic
there.

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And so one of the things the
chamber does at both a provincial

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and a federal level is promote
policy.

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So chambers throughout BC once a
year will go to an annual general

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meeting of BC chambers where
certain policies can be promoted.

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And that actually happens at the
federal level as well.

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It actually happened last week
where our president and our CEO

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went to Mississauga and were at
the federal level there where they

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can promote certain policies.

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And so one of the ones that we

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have been pushing for a long
period of time is that inter

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-provincial cross -border trade.

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And obviously the barriers that we

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see, you think of the wine
industry per se, or alcohol in

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that regard.

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And so I think we've been

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hammering on that in addition to
many other chambers and entities,

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but that's been something we've
been trying to push for years.

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And obviously with everything
happening in the States.

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it does look like there's been a
little bit of movement there now

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obviously uh the federal level you
had to get 13 provinces and

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territories on board there but we
do feel that locally that's been

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an issue that we've been on top of
and something we've been quite

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vocal about and hopefully we're
starting to see some movement

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there yeah you think it would have
happened like at a much more rapid

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pace like you think you know
tariffs would have been the the

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catalyst to like get inner
provincial trading going here you

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know but it hasn't come to
fruition you think it would have

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happened like at a much more rapid
pace like you think you know

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tariffs would have been the the
catalyst to like get inner

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provincial trading going here you
know but it hasn't come to

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fruition No, I mean, again, as
much as it's something that we

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advocate for at a local level in
terms of a policy, it does work

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its way up.

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I think right now it's really

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between the federal level and all
your provinces trying to figure

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out how to make that work.

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I'm not a politician by any means,

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but I think it'd be appreciated
that a lot of moving parts there.

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But I think there's a general
consensus that it's something that

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has to get figured out.

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It's just we got to get there.

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You know, Matt, I think it's one
of those things too, is like you

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said, it's always the ripple or
the unintended consequences or how

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that impacts other industries.

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We obviously look at tourism again

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and how, especially in the
summertime, short -term rentals

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provided an alternative avenue for
accommodations, which obviously I

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would say has a good impact on
surrounding business, whatnot.

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And again, as a chamber, we also
have to appreciate that we have

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many members who are hotels or
other forms of accommodation.

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So you're trying to find that
balance between all the various

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considerations per se.

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But another avenue is short -term

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rentals at time would provide
other accommodations for work

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reasons, whether they're here for
a certain period of time to do

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their job or whatnot.

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And so with the restrictions we

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have, that does add another hurdle
on that end, which can have

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impacts from an economic
perspective as well.

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On our end, I'm kind of wearing my
legal hat as well in terms of just

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the businesses I advise per se.

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You know, Kelowna, obviously in

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the greater Okanagan, a lot of the
focus is on tourism, but year

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round.

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a lot of those issues don't go

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00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,930
away and so i know the chamber is
a big proponent of shop local and

246
00:11:09,930 --> 00:11:13,370
contribute to the local economy
not just in the four summer months

247
00:11:13,370 --> 00:11:16,010
but year round i think back to
your question there it's

248
00:11:16,010 --> 00:11:19,130
definitely something that impacts
us year round and on multiple

249
00:11:19,130 --> 00:11:22,490
levels including the restaurants
absolutely do you see the chamber

250
00:11:22,490 --> 00:11:25,790
like when everyone's you see the
chamber like when everyone's

251
00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:28,010
profitable and, you know, economy
is good on the small business

252
00:11:28,010 --> 00:11:28,330
side.

253
00:11:28,330 --> 00:11:30,050
Does that correlate directly to

254
00:11:30,050 --> 00:11:32,670
like you guys doing more
transactions and closing on the

255
00:11:32,670 --> 00:11:33,990
legal side, like real estate's
booming as well?

256
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:55,950
They kind of go hand in hand or is
there any connection between those

257
00:11:55,950 --> 00:11:57,010
two?
I think, think, I mean, honestly,

258
00:11:57,010 --> 00:12:00,290
a good economy is good for all,
you know, obviously on the, you

259
00:12:00,290 --> 00:12:02,910
know, the chamber and we want to
see business thrive at all levels.

260
00:12:02,910 --> 00:12:05,670
Our main viewpoint there is a
business is good.

261
00:12:05,670 --> 00:12:08,270
That's going to have a ripple
effect on various professions per

262
00:12:08,270 --> 00:12:08,390
se.

263
00:12:08,390 --> 00:12:11,010
I mean, look at the three of us in

264
00:12:11,010 --> 00:12:11,770
our profession.

265
00:12:11,770 --> 00:12:13,150
As real estate goes up, it

266
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:14,430
benefits all three of ours.

267
00:12:14,430 --> 00:12:16,630
And so I do see that here.

268
00:12:16,630 --> 00:12:21,390
I mean, when you look back to
COVID or in times of uncertainty,

269
00:12:21,390 --> 00:12:23,210
I think on the transactional side,
you do see a bit more creativity

270
00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:23,770
per se.

271
00:12:23,770 --> 00:12:26,120
Things like vendor financing or

272
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,180
other ways of potentially getting
deals done if you have a motivated

273
00:12:29,180 --> 00:12:30,280
buyer and seller.

274
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,000
But certainly if the economy is

275
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,980
good and business is doing well.

276
00:12:33,980 --> 00:12:35,660
That definitely is going to have a

277
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,680
positive effect on the legal side
from a transaction point of view.

278
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,580
Maybe to kind of wrap up on the
commerce side, how do people

279
00:12:40,580 --> 00:12:43,300
connect with you, small business
owners, or maybe not you

280
00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:45,100
specifically, but how do they get
involved in the Chamber of

281
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:47,520
Commerce and what does that look
like?

282
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,680
The Chamber is a not -profit
organization, so we do have a

283
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:52,480
small team led by our CEO of
George Greenwood.

284
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:53,820
Chamber is a not -profit
organization, so we do have a

285
00:12:53,820 --> 00:12:55,840
small team led by our CEO of
George Greenwood.

286
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,880
And I will say our team is small
in number, but they all punch well

287
00:12:59,000 --> 00:12:59,900
above their weight class.

288
00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:02,200
The work they do on a daily basis

289
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,400
is unbelievable from an
operational perspective.

290
00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:06,860
perspective and a lot of big
events that we host whether it be

291
00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:10,020
luncheons or educational events or
speaker series you know our big

292
00:13:10,020 --> 00:13:13,380
event actually at the end of this
month is the business excellence

293
00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:16,780
awards which is always a fantastic
night to really celebrate a local

294
00:13:16,780 --> 00:13:19,500
business there's over 16 awards
that are presented and I've been

295
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:21,960
going for a couple years now that
event is always so amazing to see

296
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,040
the type of business out there the
awards are quite diverse in terms

297
00:13:25,140 --> 00:13:27,180
of the categories typically what
happens is your finalists each one

298
00:13:27,180 --> 00:13:29,740
for each award it's a long night
But you do get a video overview of

299
00:13:29,740 --> 00:13:32,860
what each business does and their
story, their individual story.

300
00:13:32,860 --> 00:13:35,680
It's inspiring, actually, just to
hear the different stories and

301
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:31,960
different successes our community
has in that regard.

302
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:32,680
Those are operations.

303
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:34,540
And then from a board governance

304
00:13:34,540 --> 00:13:37,360
model, myself, in addition to
other directors, were there to

305
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,080
really guide the chamber from a
governance perspective.

306
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,140
And so I'm the vice president this
year.

307
00:13:41,140 --> 00:13:43,180
That's certainly something that if
people are interested, they have

308
00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:47,120
just general questions on how the
chamber works or if they want to.

309
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:51,040
get involved as a member or as a
volunteer i mean they can

310
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,580
certainly reach out to me or just
reach out to our ceo george in

311
00:13:54,580 --> 00:13:57,360
general through our website
awesome man i love it yeah and

312
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:02,520
that is one thing like i see in
kelowna and maybe you know we live

313
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,520
in a bit of a bubble and people
aren't so aware but like there are

314
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,040
some awesome entrepreneurs in
okanagan is such a good community

315
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,660
that way so yeah it must be
exciting to see them grow i will

316
00:14:11,660 --> 00:14:14,860
finish with one more thing on the
chamber and this is i'm going to

317
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,000
throw a question at you we're
celebrating a you know milestone

318
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,840
next year as a chamber man i love
it yeah and that is one thing like

319
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,900
i see in kelowna and maybe you
know we live in a bit of a bubble

320
00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:31,120
and people aren't so aware but
like there are some awesome

321
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,680
entrepreneurs in okanagan is such
a good community that way so yeah

322
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,840
it must be exciting to see them
grow will finish with one more

323
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,940
thing on the chamber and this is
i'm going to throw a question at

324
00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:43,510
you we're celebrating a you know
milestone next year as a chamber

325
00:14:43,510 --> 00:14:45,330
How old do you think the Kelowna
Chamber of Commerce is?

326
00:14:45,330 --> 00:14:45,970
Oh, 25 years.

327
00:14:45,970 --> 00:14:47,570
Next year will be our 120th

328
00:14:47,570 --> 00:14:47,830
anniversary.

329
00:14:47,830 --> 00:14:49,930
I know, I didn't want to go too

330
00:14:49,930 --> 00:14:50,350
high.

331
00:14:50,350 --> 00:14:51,290
I said 125, not 25.

332
00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:51,630
That's incredible.

333
00:14:51,630 --> 00:14:53,590
So yeah, I mean, you look at that.

334
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:55,790
So it's been around in some shape
or form for a long period of time.

335
00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:56,750
Obviously, you know.

336
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:59,030
Well, for that, it's had to adapt

337
00:14:59,030 --> 00:15:01,930
and change and in terms of
providing value to its members.

338
00:15:01,930 --> 00:15:03,750
But as a chamber, we're very
excited for next year.

339
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:06,470
Already, there's a lot of talk
about the different ways we can

340
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:07,750
celebrate quite a significant
milestone, so to speak.

341
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:08,070
Congrats.

342
00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:08,530
That's awesome.

343
00:15:08,530 --> 00:14:50,910
I don't know how you have time for
that and legal and a couple of

344
00:14:50,910 --> 00:14:51,470
kids like you're...

345
00:14:51,470 --> 00:14:51,790
And Pontiac.

346
00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:51,970
Pontiac.

347
00:14:51,970 --> 00:14:52,770
That laugh was hard.

348
00:14:52,770 --> 00:14:54,990
No. Well, you know what it does?
I hinted earlier, Pusher Mitchell,

349
00:14:54,990 --> 00:14:57,670
where I'm a partner at, it's only
been around for 53 years, I

350
00:14:57,670 --> 00:15:00,810
believe, but has had a
longstanding relationship with the

351
00:15:00,810 --> 00:15:00,950
Chamber.

352
00:15:00,950 --> 00:15:02,810
I mean, it does go hand in hand.

353
00:15:02,810 --> 00:15:06,230
We don't just share a parking lot,
as I like to say, but many lawyers

354
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:09,450
have served on the board, or I
believe we've had five or six past

355
00:15:09,450 --> 00:15:11,110
presidents that have led the board
in that regard.

356
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:14,280
And especially as someone, I call
myself a business lawyer, I think

357
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:22,500
it goes hand in hand.

358
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:22,960
My expertise definitely

359
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:29,600
contributes nicely to a governance
board, but at the same time, in

360
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,180
terms of advising my clients from
a business perspective, to have

361
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,520
that sort of insight as to really
how all the levers work from a

362
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,220
chamber and a municipal standpoint
definitely helps.

363
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:39,720
Yeah, that's awesome.

364
00:15:40,060 --> 00:15:41,170
On the legal side of things,

365
00:15:41,170 --> 00:15:45,710
before we put you in the hot seat
and just fire questions at you, do

366
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:49,710
you kind of want to let us know
any current legal updates or

367
00:15:49,710 --> 00:15:52,270
anything in the pipeline that you
might want to fill us in on?

368
00:15:52,270 --> 00:15:52,750
No, absolutely.

369
00:15:52,750 --> 00:15:56,030
And so the overlap we all have is

370
00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:56,950
real estate is part of my
practice.

371
00:15:56,950 --> 00:16:00,010
I advise businesses really at that
commercial element.

372
00:16:00,010 --> 00:16:04,110
But on real estate side, both
residential commercials, a big

373
00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:06,360
part of my practice.

374
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:07,300
And so we're always seeing what's

375
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:08,980
changing or shifting in that
regard.

376
00:16:08,980 --> 00:16:11,880
And two things I think I'd raise,
and I appreciate you've had a lot

377
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:15,920
of great lawyers on in the past in
terms of a timestamp.

378
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,360
And here we are in October of
2025.

379
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,760
You know, a big thing actually is
more on the administration end is

380
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:20,560
compliance.

381
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:21,040
And so.

382
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:22,680
Title insurance, which is
something that you see typically

383
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:23,420
in all transactions.

384
00:16:23,420 --> 00:16:25,280
Now it's something that lenders

385
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,760
require as part of any sort of
financing per se.

386
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,220
The title insurance, which really
ensures title to the property.

387
00:16:30,220 --> 00:16:32,880
We have to get various information
on the client, individual

388
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:33,160
information.

389
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,080
That's now really a FinTrack

390
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:35,220
regulated element.

391
00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:36,480
And so when we provide that

392
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,200
information to the insurers, it's
not just to get the insurance

393
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,500
bound per se, but now the title
insurers have to.

394
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:42,720
relay that information through
FinTrack.

395
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,960
And so I think as it can be
appreciated, it's something that

396
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,020
is adding on another
administrative layer, so to speak,

397
00:16:49,020 --> 00:16:49,880
another item that we have to
address.

398
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,840
And so part of our role as legal
counsel, which gets the back end

399
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,740
of these transactions as we're
getting ready for closing, is you

400
00:16:55,740 --> 00:16:58,940
just want to be proactive in terms
of getting that information and

401
00:16:58,940 --> 00:17:01,300
making sure that's not going to be
something that potentially holds

402
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:02,060
up a prospective closing.

403
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,020
As of October 1st, 2025.

404
00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:06,220
Typically, my understanding, Mac,
the realtors are not really

405
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,000
involved with the title insurance
aspect.

406
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,780
I mean, obviously, you have to
have your own hoops.

407
00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:13,420
You have to jump through from an
ID verification standpoint.

408
00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:15,460
I think the big thing is it really
does impact the lawyers because

409
00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:18,400
we're the ones that work directly
with the title insurers to get the

410
00:17:18,460 --> 00:17:18,540
policy.

411
00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:21,180
Given now that that is a piece of

412
00:17:21,180 --> 00:17:23,200
personal information that's now
going to be shared with a third

413
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,540
party and shared with FinTrack,
it's something we actually have to

414
00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:28,760
get approval from our client right
off the bat.

415
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,860
And so it's something where... I
think in the past, you weren't as

416
00:17:32,860 --> 00:17:35,880
concerned about addressing that
item right off the bat.

417
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,260
It's definitely something that's
more at the forefront now because,

418
00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:42,900
you know, some transactions, you
don't have a lot of time turn

419
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:46,060
around between condition removal
and closing, and you need title

420
00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:48,600
insurance in place for closing if
you have a lender.

421
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,500
I speak for all mortgage brokers.

422
00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:51,920
We apologize on tight timeframes,

423
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,260
you know, especially this fall.

424
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:55,500
Yeah, you get.

425
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:57,680
certain promos by certain lenders
that you have to close within 30

426
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,780
days to get specific rates and you
know it puts the legal side under

427
00:18:01,780 --> 00:18:05,180
a lot of pressure because you know
we're constantly trying to push to

428
00:18:05,180 --> 00:18:08,420
get instructions sent to you guys
as soon as possible but there are

429
00:18:08,620 --> 00:18:10,340
conditions that you know we have
to meet before they send those

430
00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:12,780
instructions but if you have you
know piles more compliance

431
00:18:12,780 --> 00:18:18,400
paperwork like title insurance you
know that's why you guys really

432
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:25,950
need that like 10 business days
you know before closing right so

433
00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:26,170
Yeah.

434
00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:28,350
And like you said, Taylor, I mean,

435
00:18:28,530 --> 00:18:30,130
every transaction is different in
terms of timeline.

436
00:18:30,130 --> 00:18:32,550
Sometimes there is certain things
that will dictate the timeline per

437
00:18:32,550 --> 00:18:32,770
se.

438
00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:35,350
I mean, I would say a lot of the

439
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:38,070
information we're getting is
information we'd be getting in any

440
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:38,270
event.

441
00:18:38,270 --> 00:18:39,910
A lot of the compliance over the

442
00:18:39,910 --> 00:18:42,670
past few years, and whether that
be the law society, ID

443
00:18:42,670 --> 00:18:45,090
verification requirements,
disclosure from a transparency

444
00:18:45,090 --> 00:18:46,750
perspective, these are all things
we'd be collecting in some shape

445
00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:50,430
or form anyway, but it's just now
that extra what we're doing with

446
00:18:50,430 --> 00:18:51,050
that information.

447
00:18:51,050 --> 00:18:51,790
And that's not to...

448
00:18:51,790 --> 00:18:55,390
That's not to scare clients in
that regard, but it just is part

449
00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:57,610
of the process now in terms of
doing a transaction.

450
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:58,210
Yeah.

451
00:18:58,210 --> 00:18:59,050
What about GST?

452
00:18:59,050 --> 00:19:00,310
You got anything interesting there
for us?

453
00:19:00,350 --> 00:19:02,030
Everyone's favorite GST, right?
And then in terms of whether it's

454
00:19:02,030 --> 00:19:02,630
applicable or not.

455
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:05,190
You know, one thing that's sort of

456
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:07,550
come up, it's not here yet, but
back in the spring, there was

457
00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:08,830
actually discussion.

458
00:19:08,830 --> 00:19:10,410
They knew first time home buyers

459
00:19:10,410 --> 00:19:11,430
GST rebate.

460
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:14,210
And so typically on new builds per

461
00:19:14,350 --> 00:19:15,620
se, there is GST.

462
00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:15,800
payable.

463
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,800
PTT is not payable at certain
times, property transfer tax.

464
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,140
And again, not a politician, but
part of the new carny coming in

465
00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:23,620
and whatnot, there was some
proposed legislation about first

466
00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:26,040
-time homebuyers where really
between one and $1 .5 million new

467
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,220
homes, there could be a
prospective GST rebate if you are

468
00:19:29,220 --> 00:19:30,220
a new homebuyer.

469
00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:31,220
Now that is not in effect yet.

470
00:19:31,220 --> 00:19:35,380
So if you were buying a new home
today and you are a first -time

471
00:19:35,380 --> 00:19:36,920
homebuyer, you are paying GST on
that.

472
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,120
but it is something that has been
proposed with the house of commons

473
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:43,840
and theoretically if it does get
passed at some time i think that

474
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,200
would definitely help be a
catalyst in terms of getting first

475
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,580
-time home buyers into the market
because oxygst is a part of the

476
00:19:50,580 --> 00:19:53,500
consideration in terms of what
your budget is per se Now you

477
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:55,120
nailed that, right?
I'll say my favorite legal answer

478
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:56,080
is we don't know yet.

479
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,100
Now it depends on the legislation,

480
00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:01,680
how it works, but you're right
because a rebate in essence is

481
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,940
really you're paying it and
getting the money back.

482
00:20:03,940 --> 00:20:05,700
There is a first time home buyers
rebate right now.

483
00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:08,600
It's quite a bit smaller on new
build homes, but that's how it

484
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,820
works is you are paying the GST
upfront typically, and then you

485
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,600
get a rebate after.

486
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,360
Would that work in this case?

487
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:18,880
I mean, again, you think if we're
looking at homes up to 1 .5, that

488
00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:21,320
can be quite significant GST.

489
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,260
And so if the whole... thought

490
00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,000
process from a policy standpoint
is to try to get more people in

491
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:28,640
the market and also sure then
paying it up front and then

492
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,760
getting a rebate afterwards that's
just that yeah yeah it should be

493
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,320
an exemption for sure from a
lending point of view generally

494
00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:42,090
lenders don't finance the gst
anyway so it wouldn't be like you

495
00:20:42,290 --> 00:20:46,070
know the lender funds it and then
you're getting that cash back as a

496
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:50,450
client like you have to come up
out of pocket should be an

497
00:20:50,450 --> 00:20:54,650
exemption for sure from a lending
point of view generally lenders

498
00:20:54,650 --> 00:20:57,910
don't finance the gst anyway so it
wouldn't be like you know the

499
00:20:58,070 --> 00:21:00,590
lender funds it and then you're
getting that cash back as a client

500
00:21:00,590 --> 00:21:03,370
like you have to come up out of
pocket No, we typically don't see

501
00:21:03,370 --> 00:21:06,540
it unless it's incorporated in the
purchase contract of just the

502
00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:07,180
price itself.

503
00:21:07,180 --> 00:21:09,400
I mean, Pat, you've seen way more

504
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,400
transactions than I have.

505
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,920
Maybe I've got this wrong, but the

506
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,160
ones that I've done with GST, the
client has to come up out of their

507
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:16,420
own pocket.

508
00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:18,420
It won't be facilitated from the

509
00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:18,460
mortgage.

510
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:18,540
Yeah.

511
00:21:18,540 --> 00:21:48,320
I mean, what will happen is from a
more of a mechanical perspective,

512
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,940
when we're meeting with a client,
you look at a statement of

513
00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:53,620
adjustments, there is a separate
line item for GST in that regard,

514
00:21:53,620 --> 00:21:54,680
whatever it ends up being.

515
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:55,960
And so that is added.

516
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,740
I mean, obviously we factor in
whatever the mortgage proceeds

517
00:21:57,940 --> 00:22:00,580
are, but that is certainly an item
that is added on top in terms of

518
00:22:00,580 --> 00:22:01,880
what the ultimate.

519
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,000
breakdown of cash that a client

520
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,140
has to bring in is it's like
property transfer tax right like

521
00:22:06,140 --> 00:22:09,140
that's not going to be financed
from a lender so recently i have

522
00:22:09,140 --> 00:22:10,780
seen a few times as you're seeing
motivated developers that are

523
00:22:10,780 --> 00:22:13,660
trying to move in recovery is they
sell to collect the gst but

524
00:22:13,660 --> 00:22:16,990
they'll be now offering a credit a
buyer's incentive call it what you

525
00:22:16,990 --> 00:22:19,070
will like property transfer tax
right like that's not going to be

526
00:22:19,070 --> 00:22:21,990
financed from a lender recently i
have seen a few times as you're

527
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:26,730
seeing motivated developers that
are trying to move in recovery is

528
00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:31,050
they sell to collect the gst but
they'll be now offering a credit a

529
00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:34,270
buyer's incentive call it what you
will That coincidentally equals

530
00:22:34,270 --> 00:22:35,930
the 5 % value of the purchase
price.

531
00:22:35,930 --> 00:22:37,230
We have a line item for GST.

532
00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:25,270
That GST is getting paid to seller

533
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:28,430
per se, but then they are getting
a credit, which washes it out.

534
00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:33,110
That is something I've seen a few
times now quite recently in terms

535
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:34,550
of developers trying to move
product.

536
00:22:34,550 --> 00:22:34,910
Yeah.

537
00:22:34,910 --> 00:22:35,610
Hypothetically, what does a

538
00:22:35,610 --> 00:22:37,230
transaction look like?
Like a client gets an accepted

539
00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:42,150
offer, you know, they send it over
to you because...

540
00:22:42,150 --> 00:22:44,670
You know, hopefully every real
estate agent puts in a condition

541
00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:45,470
for a legal review.

542
00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:52,000
You open up a file with a client,

543
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,320
what are kind of the next steps?
You nailed it there, nailed it

544
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:54,620
there, Taylor.

545
00:22:54,620 --> 00:22:56,040
I mean, ideally there is a

546
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,200
condition or a due diligence
period that has a legal element to

547
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:58,800
it.

548
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,640
And really that is our opportunity

549
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,220
from the legal end to really look
at contract, make sure we're

550
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,060
comfortable with what that looks
like.

551
00:23:04,060 --> 00:23:06,560
Look at title, make sure we're
comfortable with what title looks

552
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:06,680
like.

553
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,040
And the way I like to frame it to

554
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,020
our clients are, are you legally
informed?

555
00:23:10,020 --> 00:23:12,780
Can you make a legally informed
decision to move forward with this

556
00:23:12,780 --> 00:23:15,620
purchase if you so choose?
And so that's really our task to

557
00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:18,930
really, you know, are there any
flags, anything we should raise?

558
00:23:18,930 --> 00:23:21,730
Do we have all the information?
And so that is our role during the

559
00:23:21,730 --> 00:23:22,830
due diligence period.

560
00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:23,710
Typically the client is also at

561
00:23:23,710 --> 00:23:30,050
the same time doing their
inspection.

562
00:23:30,050 --> 00:23:32,830
They're financing an order, making
sure they can get insurance on the

563
00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:36,150
property and any other sort of
asks that go with that.

564
00:23:36,150 --> 00:23:38,870
And so ideally we have that
timeframe and we work with the

565
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:40,850
client to then provide the
information.

566
00:23:40,850 --> 00:23:23,030
They decide then whether they want
to move forward or not.

567
00:23:23,030 --> 00:23:30,750
If they do move forward and they
remove conditions or in the

568
00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:33,350
alternative where they didn't have
any conditions to deal with, and

569
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:34,470
it was an unconditional offer.

570
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:36,490
Really at that point, then we

571
00:23:36,490 --> 00:23:38,870
shift from the due diligence
aspect to facilitating the close.

572
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:43,440
And so what has to be done to get
a closing in place?

573
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,740
Is there a lender we're working
with and which we need

574
00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:47,560
instructions and we're looking at
conditions for financing and

575
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:47,740
whatnot.

576
00:23:47,740 --> 00:23:49,860
And then working with the client,

577
00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:51,560
getting that personal information,
preparing the purchase documents,

578
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,560
finalizing a figure so they know
what they have to do leading up to

579
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:54,940
closing.

580
00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:55,140
Yeah.

581
00:23:55,140 --> 00:23:59,440
And I mean, during that process,
you know, when we get a commitment

582
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,580
letter, we usually forward it to
our legal teams that we're working

583
00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:02,980
with and say.

584
00:24:02,980 --> 00:24:04,260
you know, Hey, expect instructions

585
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,820
shortly, but to go back to the
purchase contract, any pro tips on

586
00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:10,720
putting in little clauses, whether
that's like a hold back, like

587
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,320
where do hold backs come in place?
Like at what kind of monetary

588
00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:13,100
value?
Yeah.

589
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:14,660
Just kind of walk us through some
of that.

590
00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:15,640
No, it's a great question.

591
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,400
And, you know, looking at you

592
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,930
there, Matt, in terms of your
world, a little bit per se, but

593
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:23,870
the standard form contract, I
think does a good job of really

594
00:24:23,870 --> 00:24:26,630
getting the general essence of
what a purchase transaction should

595
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:27,210
look like.

596
00:24:27,210 --> 00:24:28,430
Of course, it's always those

597
00:24:28,570 --> 00:24:30,130
additional items there that we
have to put some thought to in

598
00:24:30,130 --> 00:24:32,330
terms of what that looks like.

599
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:34,450
And so I think the one you raised,

600
00:24:34,450 --> 00:24:35,530
Taylor, was a hold back.

601
00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:36,810
And, you know, typically you see a

602
00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:40,090
hold back if there's some sort of
action step, usually on a seller

603
00:24:40,090 --> 00:24:41,610
for something to be done to the
property.

604
00:24:41,610 --> 00:24:45,090
And really the incentive is of
that if said thing is not done by

605
00:24:45,090 --> 00:24:48,190
closing or by a period of time
after closing, money is held back

606
00:24:48,190 --> 00:24:51,010
as sort of a mechanism to ensure
that that thing is done.

607
00:24:51,010 --> 00:24:53,350
And so that's where you see
holdbacks is, you know, does

608
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:55,770
something have to be replaced?
Does something have to be

609
00:24:55,770 --> 00:24:56,950
repaired?
Is there an outstanding permit or

610
00:24:56,950 --> 00:25:00,090
something that is really needed
for the buyer to really fit their

611
00:25:00,090 --> 00:25:03,490
intentions of what this property
is and really what the transaction

612
00:25:03,490 --> 00:25:04,430
is?
Unfortunately, holdbacks, you

613
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:05,730
know, the essence makes sense.

614
00:25:05,730 --> 00:25:06,570
We're holding back money until

615
00:25:06,570 --> 00:25:08,050
something's done, but they get
incredibly technical because

616
00:25:08,050 --> 00:25:10,720
unfortunately what happens is deal
closes holdbacks in place.

617
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,660
and then what happens if seller
doesn't do what they say they're

618
00:25:14,660 --> 00:25:17,100
going to do or seller says what
they're going to do and buyer

619
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,540
doesn't think it was done properly
and you really have nothing to

620
00:25:19,540 --> 00:25:23,400
point to in the contract or the
holdback language and so there

621
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,480
unfortunately are a lot of
disputes or ongoing issues with

622
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,080
holdbacks if they're not drafted
properly or really just have fully

623
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,500
encompassing consideration for how
that process is to be played out

624
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,580
so definitely i tie that back to
legal like if we have a due

625
00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:36,780
diligence period And that's
something the lawyer is looking at

626
00:25:36,780 --> 00:25:37,680
as part of the contract.

627
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:37,880
Absolutely.

628
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,240
If there's holdback language, part
of our role is to think that

629
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,700
through and sometimes wear our
worst case scenario hat, make sure

630
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:49,320
that that holdback language would
address that properly.

631
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,520
You said something there that, I
mean, it's kind of the

632
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,220
expectation, like the seller
thought they did something to the

633
00:25:54,220 --> 00:25:55,980
right standard and the buyer
thinks they didn't.

634
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,620
Like unit has to be professionally
cleaned or carpets have to be

635
00:25:58,760 --> 00:25:59,760
cleaned before, you know,
possessions taken over.

636
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,340
Like, what is the recourse there?
Because really it comes down to

637
00:26:02,340 --> 00:26:05,340
the buyer comes in and says, I
don't think this was clean.

638
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:06,180
Show me a receipt.

639
00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:08,620
And then they show him a receipt.

640
00:26:08,620 --> 00:26:11,500
And then like, they're in this,
I'm going to take you to small

641
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:12,340
claims for 400 bucks kind of
thing.

642
00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:14,520
Like, obviously you guys are
probably not going to get involved

643
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,020
at that level.

644
00:26:15,020 --> 00:26:16,480
That's kind of like where the

645
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,380
buyer and the seller agent, you
know, put their heads together and

646
00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:20,760
see what they can resolve.

647
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:21,740
are clauses like you know a unit

648
00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:24,780
being professionally cleaned like
is that reasonable to put in like

649
00:26:24,780 --> 00:26:27,620
i would say definitely reasonable
and any of these clauses that do

650
00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:32,080
get in the contract i mean that is
evidence to a court if it ever

651
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,830
goes there what was the intention
of the parties as it relates to

652
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:37,890
the transaction specifically an
item in the contract whether it be

653
00:26:37,890 --> 00:26:41,650
the cleanliness of the home or
otherwise but it's something that

654
00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:45,350
you know on the buyer's side you
do have to would say definitely

655
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:47,590
reasonable and any of these
clauses that do get in the

656
00:26:47,590 --> 00:26:52,090
contract i mean that is evidence
to a court if it ever goes there

657
00:26:52,090 --> 00:26:56,210
what was the intention of the
parties as it relates to the

658
00:26:56,210 --> 00:27:00,680
transaction specifically an item
in the contract whether it be the

659
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,960
cleanliness of the home or
otherwise but it's something that

660
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,080
you know on the buyer's side you
do have to advise your clients to

661
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,260
a certain extent as you get to
closing and obviously there's

662
00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:10,580
terms in the contract and rights
and obligations of both sides and

663
00:27:10,580 --> 00:27:14,820
there is a discussion of clients
that this is what you're legally

664
00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:18,360
entitled to contractually this is
what is supposed to happen but

665
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:23,600
what happens if it's not and so
first off for the vast majority i

666
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,720
would say 99 of these terms they
are not material In the sense that

667
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,900
you cannot back out of a deal if
the home is not professionally

668
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:31,360
clean when they say it's going to.

669
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,240
Or there is some damage found to

670
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:34,680
the property.

671
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,420
I mean, material, it's got to go

672
00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:38,080
to the essence of the contract.

673
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,840
Are you still getting the home you

674
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,780
said you were going to get?
Or the contract contemplated you

675
00:27:42,860 --> 00:27:44,620
getting?
And so that is something that, you

676
00:27:44,620 --> 00:27:47,640
know, client has to understand is
that if you do find out about an

677
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,980
issue, whether before closing or
on the day of closing, it's not

678
00:27:50,980 --> 00:27:51,140
material.

679
00:27:51,140 --> 00:27:52,760
It doesn't give you an out.

680
00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:55,230
You can't not close on that basis.

681
00:27:55,230 --> 00:27:55,810
Yep.

682
00:27:55,810 --> 00:27:56,350
They are.

683
00:27:56,350 --> 00:27:57,730
I mean, you know, the walkthrough

684
00:27:57,730 --> 00:27:59,310
can always be a good thing.

685
00:27:59,310 --> 00:28:00,510
Like you said, you can be

686
00:28:00,510 --> 00:28:02,590
proactive in that regard to see
what are we getting them into here

687
00:28:02,590 --> 00:28:04,290
as we get to closing.

688
00:28:04,290 --> 00:28:04,970
And sometimes, you know, that can

689
00:28:04,970 --> 00:28:07,910
lead to discussion between counsel
as to, hey, it's not clean

690
00:28:07,910 --> 00:28:09,970
contracts as their client will be
in breach of a term.

691
00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:12,250
Can we negotiate a hold back at
that point?

692
00:28:12,250 --> 00:28:14,750
Is this something that the seller
is willing to engage in that

693
00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:17,090
regard?
But if not, if there's a refusal,

694
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:19,710
there's a rejection in that, and
ultimately you're going to close

695
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:20,670
on a deal.

696
00:28:20,670 --> 00:28:22,890
And then it's up to the client, a

697
00:28:22,890 --> 00:28:24,430
buyer at that point, if they want
to pursue a remedy.

698
00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:27,370
I tell clients like, ultimately
you're going to have to decide how

699
00:28:27,370 --> 00:28:30,050
much time, money, and emotion you
want to put into this.

700
00:28:30,050 --> 00:28:32,490
I mean, so now some clients.

701
00:28:32,490 --> 00:28:34,870
will pursue a $300 cleaning bill.

702
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:36,770
It's on principle and something
they're comfortable pursuing

703
00:28:36,770 --> 00:28:38,670
through small claims and they're
fully entitled to do that.

704
00:28:38,670 --> 00:28:39,910
Other times, it depends on the
price tag.

705
00:28:39,910 --> 00:28:23,710
If there's water damage that's
discovered once we're in there and

706
00:28:23,710 --> 00:28:25,470
it was clearly contemplated or it
was a misrepresentation that could

707
00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:28,010
cost tens of thousands of dollars,
then obviously there's potentially

708
00:28:28,010 --> 00:28:30,670
more of an appetite to pursue that
through legal means.

709
00:28:30,670 --> 00:28:35,290
And so every client's different,
but... I think part of our job as

710
00:28:35,290 --> 00:28:38,610
part of the closing process is
just to be very clear of how that

711
00:28:38,610 --> 00:28:38,670
works.

712
00:28:38,670 --> 00:28:39,750
Because I think to your point,

713
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:42,340
Taylor and Matt, there's sometimes
this, unfortunately, as much as we

714
00:28:42,340 --> 00:28:45,400
wish we were the Harvey Specter,
the bulldog, we can't just

715
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,000
magically make the place clean and
they're going to pay for it on

716
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,660
closing, you know, for your
example there.

717
00:28:51,660 --> 00:28:51,860
Yeah.

718
00:28:51,860 --> 00:28:54,140
And you assume that, you know,

719
00:28:54,140 --> 00:28:56,640
parties are going to work in good
faith.

720
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,280
There actually is a common law
doctor and courts have looked at

721
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,880
this in terms of parties have to
negotiate and engage in a

722
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,310
transaction in good faith.

723
00:29:05,310 --> 00:29:06,470
And sometimes that comes up too.

724
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:09,070
And they're going to say, well,
I'm going to go after the other

725
00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:10,790
side because they weren't acting
in good faith.

726
00:29:10,790 --> 00:29:12,070
And that can be appreciated.

727
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:13,730
But, you know, again, the

728
00:29:13,730 --> 00:29:17,130
practical element of that and push
for Mitchell, we're a full service

729
00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:18,750
firm and we have litigators who
can help.

730
00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:21,830
A bad faith argument, you know,
you're looking at 10 to 20 grand

731
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:23,290
minimum just to start that claim,
right?

732
00:29:23,290 --> 00:29:26,190
Well, even if you win in small
claims, then how do you then

733
00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:27,630
collect?
It's just... an ongoing thing

734
00:29:27,630 --> 00:29:30,090
forever i think the point of the
contract from where i stand is two

735
00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:33,170
people communicating expectations
right and if one person doesn't

736
00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:49,350
kind of follow through with that
exactly how the other person

737
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:51,870
doesn't want to you know you kind
of take it on the thin unless it's

738
00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:53,930
yeah a bigger line item obviously
i think you nailed it there taylor

739
00:29:53,930 --> 00:29:57,610
it is and i mean we're we almost
all sound a bit jaded here talking

740
00:29:57,610 --> 00:30:01,330
about the process but i think
circling back to really our role

741
00:30:01,330 --> 00:30:04,100
is just to ensure our client
understands that process that the

742
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:07,400
pros and the cons think you nailed
it there taylor it is and i mean

743
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,520
we're we almost all sound a bit
jaded here talking about the

744
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,140
process but i think circling back
to really our role is just to

745
00:30:14,140 --> 00:30:16,220
ensure our client understands that
process that the pros and the cons

746
00:30:16,220 --> 00:30:19,440
And I mean, ultimately they can
decide how they want to go forward

747
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,740
if that situation were to arise.

748
00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:21,880
And obviously with good advisors,

749
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,700
with the realtors, if they can
identify an issue as part of the

750
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:28,280
initial contract stage and going
back to that hold back language,

751
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,200
that's something that's always
good if the lawyer can get

752
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,300
involved in that too.

753
00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:35,180
And you can kind of work through

754
00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:37,700
those different iterations of what
could happen and making sure that

755
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:39,380
the client is protected there.

756
00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:39,880
You nailed it, right?

757
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,440
I mean, we're here to try to
facilitate what the parties have

758
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,420
agreed to, but no, intentional or
otherwise, things happen.

759
00:30:46,420 --> 00:30:49,260
I mean, unfortunately, one that
is, I'd say, more on the extreme

760
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,940
side is one of the seller's main
obligations when they convey a

761
00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:53,920
property pursuant to the standard
form contract is they will provide

762
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:54,240
clear title.

763
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,040
That means any financial

764
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,740
encumbrance or otherwise will be
discharged.

765
00:30:56,740 --> 00:30:59,220
Now, as much as they are
contractually obligated to do

766
00:30:59,220 --> 00:31:00,500
that, there are some rare
circumstances where that actually

767
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:02,940
does become an issue and they
financially can't.

768
00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:05,060
And now they are in breach of
their own contract, which they

769
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:06,080
said they're going to do.

770
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:19,020
And that's something you have to

771
00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:19,580
deal with.

772
00:31:19,580 --> 00:31:20,840
And so, you know, you don't see

773
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,320
that typically when there's one
mortgage on title, but sometimes

774
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,920
you pull a title and there's liens
and judgments and multiple

775
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,280
mortgages and you sort of get a
sense.

776
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,860
And again, the conversation there
to a client is contractually

777
00:31:30,860 --> 00:31:32,180
seller has to do that, but there
is a possibility that this could

778
00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:32,780
be an issue.

779
00:31:32,780 --> 00:31:32,920
Yeah.

780
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,720
Well, and that's an interesting
point, especially in the last

781
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,660
couple of years, if you know, you
bought and.

782
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,200
2022 and you wanted to sell a year
later could be short on that for

783
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,880
sure absolutely right i'm not
talking the foreclosure aspect

784
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,900
where there actually is a lender
that's closed but i would say the

785
00:31:45,900 --> 00:32:04,040
seller's very close to that and
now they've come to the really the

786
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,180
closing and financially what each
charge holder is saying may need

787
00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:11,680
to clear title you're counting the
numbers i'm going we're not going

788
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,260
to get there and so that's a tough
one yeah yeah right i'm not

789
00:32:16,260 --> 00:32:19,040
talking the foreclosure aspect
where there actually is a lender

790
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,460
that's closed but i would say the
seller's very close to that and

791
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:23,240
now they've come to the really the
closing and financially what each

792
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,140
charge holder is saying may need
to clear title you're counting the

793
00:32:26,140 --> 00:32:28,900
numbers i'm going we're not going
to get there and so that's a tough

794
00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:32,780
one Well, in that regard, Ben, do
you do a legal review for a

795
00:32:32,780 --> 00:32:34,980
seller?
And is that part of that as well

796
00:32:34,980 --> 00:32:25,480
to say like, hey, we're going to
pull title and can you provide

797
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,880
like a current mortgage statement?
Like you're getting ahead of that

798
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,520
before like subjects are removed
from the buyer.

799
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,580
There certainly has been
circumstances where we're

800
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:34,080
providing a due diligence review
or review of a contract to a

801
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:34,680
seller.

802
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,560
Often realtor has put in a. a

803
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,920
seller's legal condition and
usually because there's some other

804
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,460
strange thing going on or they
want to make sure it's kind of a

805
00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:43,040
fail safe.

806
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,820
Often we're getting the sale

807
00:32:44,860 --> 00:32:47,040
contract after conditions have
been removed and really it is

808
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,380
binding at that point where we're
saying, hey, you have to do this,

809
00:32:50,580 --> 00:32:52,160
right?
But I've said to my clients and.

810
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,180
The realtors I work with that, you
know, even if the deal is

811
00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:57,360
conditional and we're on the
seller side, send it to us.

812
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,880
Like, let's say make sure there's
no conflict.

813
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:30,650
And just, is there anything that
we see based on a quick review

814
00:33:30,650 --> 00:33:34,350
just to make sure that there is no
surprises at closing, which I

815
00:33:34,530 --> 00:33:37,230
think is what we're trying to
avoid there.

816
00:33:37,230 --> 00:33:37,370
Yeah.

817
00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:38,850
I want to ask one more question

818
00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:41,510
and this is hopefully more to help
the conversation with real estate

819
00:33:41,510 --> 00:33:44,910
agents and mortgage brokers and
lawyers so we can all be on the

820
00:33:44,910 --> 00:33:45,930
same page.

821
00:33:45,930 --> 00:33:48,590
Do you want to talk a little bit

822
00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:51,030
about price reduction and credit
at closing?

823
00:33:51,030 --> 00:33:52,830
Because, you know, I get this.

824
00:33:53,030 --> 00:33:55,510
not often, but say like one out of

825
00:33:55,510 --> 00:33:55,930
20 deals.

826
00:33:55,930 --> 00:33:58,910
And I just had it, you know, a

827
00:33:58,910 --> 00:34:01,170
week ago where, you know, Scotia
Underwriter called me on day of

828
00:34:01,170 --> 00:34:03,030
funding and was like, hey, why is
the purchase price, you know, $5

829
00:34:03,150 --> 00:34:04,510
,000 less than what you originally
submitted?

830
00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:05,870
I'm like, no idea.

831
00:34:05,870 --> 00:34:08,370
So I have to reach out to the real

832
00:34:08,370 --> 00:34:11,290
estate agent and say, oh, you
know, found out on a home

833
00:34:11,290 --> 00:34:12,469
inspection that the furnace was
bad.

834
00:34:12,469 --> 00:34:14,250
So we did a price reduction.

835
00:34:14,250 --> 00:34:15,030
Well, now like everyone's

836
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:16,949
scrambling last minute.

837
00:34:16,949 --> 00:34:18,770
You know, and it was okay on that

838
00:34:18,770 --> 00:34:20,750
deal because the down payment was,
I think like 30%.

839
00:34:20,750 --> 00:34:22,770
So we're not on that border of
like insured or uninsured.

840
00:34:22,770 --> 00:34:24,130
But how does that look in your
terms?

841
00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:27,730
Like how much of a pain in the ass
is that for you?

842
00:34:27,730 --> 00:34:28,290
No, absolutely.

843
00:34:28,290 --> 00:34:30,250
And it really is something that

844
00:34:30,250 --> 00:34:33,290
almost touches all parties here
from a real estate agent to broker

845
00:34:33,290 --> 00:34:34,530
to lawyer there per se.

846
00:34:34,530 --> 00:34:37,170
I mean, on our end of the back end

847
00:34:37,170 --> 00:34:40,650
is obviously we have a contract
that we look at and big part of

848
00:34:40,650 --> 00:34:41,510
that is purchase price.

849
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:43,850
You know, what do we have to

850
00:34:43,850 --> 00:34:45,909
factor in terms of crunching the
final numbers if something

851
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:47,250
happens?
your example you know price

852
00:34:47,250 --> 00:34:32,190
reduction is where parties have
agreed that the purchase price has

853
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:35,530
gone down or up is a reduction
it's gone down and you know that

854
00:34:35,530 --> 00:34:37,570
matters for a couple reasons
number one from a purchaser

855
00:34:37,570 --> 00:34:40,449
perspective you pay property
transfer tax on fair market value

856
00:34:40,449 --> 00:34:43,710
and so your purchase price is a
million dollars you are paying

857
00:34:43,710 --> 00:34:46,230
property transfer tax on a million
dollars you do not factor in the

858
00:34:46,230 --> 00:35:11,830
adjustments so to speak so
utilities and taxes and things

859
00:35:11,830 --> 00:35:17,190
like that you factor in for the
sake of closing but from a fair

860
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:19,470
market value of what that property
has conveyed for the purchase

861
00:35:19,470 --> 00:35:22,270
price remains and so if you reduce
the purchase price you are

862
00:35:22,270 --> 00:35:25,310
reducing how much you pay from a
property transfer tax perspective

863
00:35:25,310 --> 00:35:29,770
which is beneficial for a buyer
however that can have negative

864
00:35:29,770 --> 00:35:31,790
impacts on what you've been
approved for from a mortgage

865
00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:35,390
because part of the lender's
aspect is depending on the lender

866
00:35:35,790 --> 00:35:38,390
they're going to have certain asks
or requirements and It does

867
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:40,450
happen, Taylor, to your point that
certain lenders will say, you

868
00:35:40,450 --> 00:35:43,790
know, if there is a price
reduction or a change in price, we

869
00:35:43,790 --> 00:35:46,690
must know because that might
impact the loan to value ratio or

870
00:35:46,690 --> 00:35:47,770
what they're looking at on their
end.

871
00:35:48,770 --> 00:35:51,490
And part of, you know, residential
conveyance as lawyer, we act for

872
00:35:51,490 --> 00:35:54,440
buyer, but we also act for the
lender in terms of registering

873
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,080
that mortgage on title.

874
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,560
And so we are obligated if we're

875
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,940
aware of a price reduction vis -a
-vis amendment to the contract, we

876
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,380
have to share that with the lender
and that can potentially cause

877
00:36:01,380 --> 00:36:02,400
issues from a funding perspective.

878
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,020
Well, fair market value.

879
00:36:03,020 --> 00:36:05,420
And so, I mean, appraisals you get
for the sake of your mortgage or

880
00:36:05,420 --> 00:36:07,660
approval might be different in
terms of what the fair market

881
00:36:07,660 --> 00:36:08,000
value is.

882
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,060
I mean, ultimately, fair market

883
00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:13,580
value in the open market is what
if two parties agreed to for this

884
00:36:13,580 --> 00:36:13,800
transaction.

885
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:14,780
That's what's documented in the

886
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:15,360
contract.

887
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:16,300
And so you can have that in an

888
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:19,860
appraisal before or after,
whatever that is that's different.

889
00:36:19,860 --> 00:36:22,780
But ultimately, if the parties
then agree upon a reduction, they

890
00:36:22,780 --> 00:36:25,280
amend it, then that's obviously
the new fair market value for the

891
00:36:25,380 --> 00:36:28,860
sake of what that property is
being conveyed for in that

892
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:29,320
transaction.

893
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,560
To your other point there, Taylor,

894
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,940
and so what you often see, and
this kind of ties back into the

895
00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:38,940
holdback issue we talked about
too, is, you know, for various

896
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:39,480
reasons, something has to be
repaired.

897
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,120
Something has to be replaced and
the parties agree, you know, it's

898
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,180
just going to be easier.

899
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:44,780
The buyer says, let me do it.

900
00:36:44,780 --> 00:36:47,460
We agree it's going to cost $5
,000.

901
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:49,390
Give me $5 ,000 and I'll do it.

902
00:36:49,390 --> 00:36:50,670
And so parties will do that.

903
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:52,710
And if it's worded, it has a
credit.

904
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:56,470
The buyer will be credited $5 ,000
as part of closing for the sake of

905
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:57,010
this specific thing.

906
00:36:57,010 --> 00:36:58,550
They're still paying the purchase

907
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:58,630
price.

908
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:59,450
The fair market value, what the

909
00:36:59,450 --> 00:37:01,670
property has been conveyed for is
still original purchase price, but

910
00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:04,470
it's treated arguably as an
adjustment as opposed to a

911
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:05,810
reduction in the purchase price.

912
00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:06,810
Yeah, I've had difficulties with

913
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:08,530
that in the past, lender to
lender.

914
00:37:08,530 --> 00:37:09,730
And you know, one of them.

915
00:37:09,730 --> 00:37:11,390
again, came up at time of funding,

916
00:37:11,390 --> 00:37:13,210
but fortunately, you know, we have
great lawyers in the Okanagan, so

917
00:37:13,210 --> 00:37:14,950
we're able to get on top of it.

918
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:17,850
But one comment that comes from

919
00:37:17,850 --> 00:37:20,610
lenders is... I don't recall that
one, recall that one, Taylor.

920
00:37:20,610 --> 00:37:22,730
I'm thinking of that deal.

921
00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:23,890
Yeah, that was at your wife's

922
00:37:23,890 --> 00:37:24,170
firm.

923
00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:25,850
Fortunately, they were pretty good

924
00:37:25,850 --> 00:37:25,890
too.

925
00:37:25,890 --> 00:37:27,530
You know, they look at it as

926
00:37:27,530 --> 00:37:29,170
incentivizing... the sale of a
property.

927
00:37:29,170 --> 00:37:34,770
So lenders obviously don't want to
see that, even though it's a very

928
00:37:34,770 --> 00:37:35,470
small amount.

929
00:37:35,470 --> 00:37:37,250
And then the other one that we

930
00:37:37,250 --> 00:37:39,890
struggle with, it goes back to
that insured mortgage.

931
00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:43,990
You know, like if you're getting a
cash back, essentially the lender,

932
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:46,330
you know, let's say it's on that
20 % down payment, but you're

933
00:37:46,330 --> 00:37:48,230
getting the cash back.

934
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:49,470
Well, you know, you're less than

935
00:37:49,470 --> 00:37:53,430
20 % down because effectively the
lender is financing a larger

936
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:56,110
portion and you're walking away
with, with less down payment.

937
00:37:56,110 --> 00:37:59,470
So I've had personally a harder
time with the credits or cash

938
00:37:59,470 --> 00:37:59,690
back.

939
00:37:59,690 --> 00:38:02,470
So I, I always encourage the price

940
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:02,670
reduction.

941
00:38:02,670 --> 00:38:04,170
it's harder for the client

942
00:38:04,170 --> 00:38:07,930
obviously because they're thinking
great i want to cash back of five

943
00:38:07,930 --> 00:38:10,470
grand instead of a five thousand
dollar price reduction you know

944
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:13,840
they're two very different things
because one you have the money in

945
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,200
your hand and the other it just
reduces your mortgage amount so

946
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,880
when you're looking at replacing
like a furnace you know it'd be

947
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,100
nicer if it was done prior to
closing so we don't have to deal

948
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:26,440
with any of that and then the
other little caveat to all that is

949
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,360
if there's a price reduction the
lender wants to know why there's a

950
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,120
price reduction if it's because of
mold Oh my God, we're in a heap of

951
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:34,280
trouble.

952
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,660
Like now we need a remediation

953
00:38:35,660 --> 00:38:38,380
report and we got to make sure the
lender is okay with it.

954
00:38:38,380 --> 00:38:41,180
So like, it's just a conversation
that needs to be brought to

955
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:51,900
everyone's attention sooner than
later.

956
00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:54,140
And, you know, loop everyone in so
we can not have those issues.

957
00:38:54,140 --> 00:38:57,460
I think for all parties, and I
mean, Taylor, you kind of stole my

958
00:38:57,460 --> 00:38:58,820
thunder there, but you nailed it.

959
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:00,360
I mean, I think there's a big

960
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,080
piece of this is the communication
is that if there is something

961
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,540
coming down the line or reduction
or an adjustment, whatever you

962
00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:08,360
want to call it, I think all
parties, advisors really got to be

963
00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:11,020
on the same page for the exact
reasons you brought up.

964
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,120
And, you know, on my end too, as a
lawyer, and again, I bring up that

965
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:15,560
dual role.

966
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,240
We are acting for lender, not to

967
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,480
say we're trying to pull a fast
one at all with the lender, but

968
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,940
like really what we as a lawyer
are always looking at when we get

969
00:39:22,940 --> 00:39:24,000
our loan packages.

970
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:24,880
What are the instructions?

971
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,860
What is the lender telling us?
And often, to your point, they are

972
00:39:27,860 --> 00:39:29,920
going to be very clear to say, we
must be notified if there is a

973
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,820
price reduction, or we must be
notified if there's amendment or

974
00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:32,440
terms.

975
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,800
And so we're obligated at that

976
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:35,780
point to notify them.

977
00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:38,020
And so to your point there, it can

978
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,600
come as a surprise upon closing,
we realize that there's been an

979
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:42,840
amendment or something's happened.

980
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,480
And whether it's the lawyer not

981
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,900
talking to broker or real estate,
you know, whatever way it goes,

982
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:48,800
it's important that we're all.

983
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,780
talking throughout the process.

984
00:39:50,780 --> 00:39:54,140
I think that's probably the best
point to leave this whole

985
00:39:54,140 --> 00:40:01,340
conversation on is, I think that's
probably the best point to leave

986
00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:04,760
this whole conversation on is, you
know, have the team around you,

987
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,520
make sure everyone's in constant
communication.

988
00:40:06,090 --> 00:40:09,170
And even with, you know, like when
I send you guys a commitment

989
00:40:09,170 --> 00:40:10,910
letter, I know that's like bare
bones, right?

990
00:40:10,910 --> 00:40:12,330
Like I don't see the instructions
that are sent.

991
00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:15,310
So it, you know, it's obviously
pages and pages longer.

992
00:40:15,310 --> 00:40:15,730
So yeah, for the client.

993
00:40:15,730 --> 00:40:16,830
you know, have a good team,

994
00:40:16,830 --> 00:40:19,410
surround yourself with those
people, and then just be

995
00:40:19,410 --> 00:40:22,370
transparent and, you know, let the
professionals kind of take it from

996
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:22,450
there.

997
00:40:22,450 --> 00:40:25,330
Yeah, we're kind of running out of

998
00:40:25,330 --> 00:40:26,770
time here, Pat.

999
00:40:26,770 --> 00:40:28,230
Absolutely loved having you on,

1000
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:28,490
man.

1001
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:29,230
Thank you so much.

1002
00:40:29,230 --> 00:40:31,370
Yeah, I'm interested into hearing
more about the Chamber of Commerce

1003
00:40:31,370 --> 00:40:32,510
as well and your guys' event
coming up.

1004
00:40:32,510 --> 00:40:32,890
Absolutely.

1005
00:40:32,890 --> 00:40:34,310
I noticed in closing, neither of

1006
00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:37,730
you two are nominees, so we'll
have to work on that for next

1007
00:40:37,730 --> 00:40:37,850
year.

1008
00:40:37,850 --> 00:40:38,010
Yeah.

1009
00:40:38,010 --> 00:40:39,570
Yeah, maybe I'll nominate Matt.

1010
00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:39,730
Fantastic.

1011
00:40:39,730 --> 00:40:40,650
All across the board.

1012
00:40:40,750 --> 00:40:41,130
Absolutely.

1013
00:40:41,450 --> 00:40:42,950
Well, thanks so much for coming on
again, buddy.

1014
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:45,390
And yeah, we'll chat to you soon.

1015
00:40:45,390 --> 00:40:46,210
Take care.

1016
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:46,810
Thanks.