111: Kelowna's Unique Approach to Funding It's 2026 Billion-Dollar Budget with City of Kelowna's Doug Gilchrist

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Welcome back to the Colonial Real
Estate Podcast.

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I'm your mortgage broker host,
Taylor Ackman.

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And I'm your real estate agent
host, Macklin.

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Didn't mean to cut you off there,
Taylor.

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Starting this one off well.

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Oh, we are capitated today.

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Yeah.

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Just finished an awesome show.

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an awesome show.

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And mostly because like I just got

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humbled with how little I know
about how the city operates.

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But yeah, Doug Gilchrist came on
the show and like such a good

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guest.

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Yeah, he was ready.

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He was ready for our questions.

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Yeah, everything.

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everything.

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Like we're... I know.

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And it was broad ranging.

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It wasn't even like, we're just

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going to stick it on one topic.

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We just asked him everything we

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could think of.

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Some people say we're really good

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at interviewing.

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Other people say we're terrible

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because of that.

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But he was a great guest because

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we just went up on different
tangents.

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I mean, we covered everything from
new development sites, homeless

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mental health, budget.

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The city budget just came out and

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I did not realize where the
revenue was drawn from or even the

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fact that Kelowna owned the...

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Largest municipal airport in

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Canada.

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And yeah, just really, really cool

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stuff.

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So definitely tune into that.

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To continue on speaking about
budgets, federal budget was passed

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November 17th.

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Really the only thing that like we

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wanted to highlight there that we
don't really know how it's going

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to play out exactly.

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But finally, the GST rebate has

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been more or less confirmed.

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We'll see as transactions close

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how clients get that rebate back.

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It just grinds me that it's a

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rebate.

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I just can't get over it.

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It's just like carefully.

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Like, just be an exemption so that

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we don't have to pay it.

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Like, when do we get paid a

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rebate?
Like, just whenever the government

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decides to mail you a check?
I mean, technically, I think the

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lawyer, thank goodness we have an
amazing lawyer community here.

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The lawyers will stick handle
this.

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They'll ensure clients, you know,
access the rebate in a timely

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fashion.

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But in terms of lending, we still

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have to prove that clients have
access to those funds to close,

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which is, like, ridiculous.

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We've made something helping the

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people to have enough money to pay
for this.

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something helping the people to
have enough money to pay for this.

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I don't, it just seems weird.

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Maybe it'll get ironed out in the

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next few years.

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I like the idea of it.

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It says one word, just change it
to exemption from rebate.

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Totally.

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Yeah.

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So something else that I always
want to highlight this time of

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year, because when you're speaking
with clients, else that I always

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want to highlight this time of
year, because when you're speaking

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with clients, first time home
buyers, and that's why kind of GST

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came up is the first home savings
account.

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So many people.

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don't have the first home savings

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account set up is essentially like
a blend between an RSP and TFSA.

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As long as you're registered, you
get the allocated $8 ,000

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annually, and that just
collectively builds year after

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year.

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So like it's the end of 2025, get

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that account set up because that's
going to carry over to 2026.

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And if you do both years, you get
a $16 ,000 write off, you know, to

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your personal taxes.

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So super powerful tool for a first

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time home buyer.

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If you don't know anything about

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it.

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reach out i'll walk you through it

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taylor loves talks about tax stuff
it's free money from the

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government you know and the nice
part about this is you don't even

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have to contribute to it you just
have to have the account

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registered it's like the opposite
of the gst the gst is like pay for

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it and then we'll give you the
money back first home savings

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account is like first home savings
account don't pay for it and we'll

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still give you the money like it's
just insane your passion about tax

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information is like the top three
reasons why i like you bro So I

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love, I don't even, I'm scared to
ask what the other two reasons

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are, man.

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Yeah.

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I'll give it to myself, to myself,
but.

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Yeah, please do.

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I know it has nothing to do with

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hockey.

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I can guarantee you that.

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Hustle harder than anyone on our
team.

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You're the hustler.

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Oh, yeah.

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Because everyone knows the puck's
already iced.

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already iced.

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I'm still skating for it, you

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know?
for it, you know?

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Need to learn the rules.

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Oh, man.

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I love it.

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This was a great episode.

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Honestly, you're kind of still
buzzing from it.

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It's a good one to kind of near
the end of the year.

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And we have a few good ones lined
up for the new year, too.

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So looking forward.

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Tons of good ones.

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Yeah.

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The only other thing I wanted to

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highlight going into 2026,
obviously, there's going to be a

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lot of conversations of like,
where's the market going?

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Is the spring market going to be
here?

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Is now the time to buy kind of
thing?

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What I've been kind of telling
clients, and I'm not in the

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position to give advice, like I
try and.

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stay away from that.

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But I do is like, I think we have

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a runway of time to buy.

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I don't think, you know, the

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spring is going to come and
there's going to be this flurry of

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activity and people are going to
miss out on that quote unquote

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bottom.

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I did have one client recently

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that was like, you know what?
They're upsizing.

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They're moving from a home to
obviously a more expensive home.

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And they said they're going to hit
pause because they think the

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market's going to drop another 50
to a hundred grand on the

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properties they want to buy.

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I was like, if you're so confident

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that you think it's going to drop,
why don't you sell your house and

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rent for a year?
Like really double down, you know?

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And this is just me being a bit of
a jerk, but it's like, I don't

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think you're that confident
because otherwise you would sell.

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So my communication to people
right now is I think there's a

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great opportunity to buy.

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I think specific to asset class in

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the condo market, you're probably
going to see that opportunity for

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the next 18 months, 24 months.

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Like it's, it's there.

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It's saturated single family homes
though.

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Like.

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If you're looking at buying a

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single family home, I do not think
the market's going any lower.

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I truly believe if you can be
approved to buy something you want

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to be in right now, go for it.

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So we actually talked to Doug, not

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about this exactly, but he was
talking about what's being built

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in Kelowna.

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And 10 years ago, it was 80 %

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homes to buy, like fee simple
homes to buy and 20 % rentals.

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And this year is 80 % on 90 %
rentals and other part of homes to

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buy, which are not single family
homes.

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That's... townhouses fourplexes
infill condos so like well

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probably not that many condos but
townhomes and infill and some

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single family homes so they're
just not building single family

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homes at the same rate as they're
building condos there's going to

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be a scarcity of fee simple
product out there yeah big time

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well especially single family
homes yeah if you're trying to

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upsize now's the time if you're
just trying to get into the market

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i think there's flexibility on a
timeline but uh simple product out

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there big time well especially
single family homes you're trying

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to upsize now's the time if you're
just trying to get into the market

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i think there's flexibility on a
timeline but uh Yeah.

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If you think the market's going to
drop, sell your own then.

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Do it.

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I dare you.

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It's true though.

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Like if you think the markets, if

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you're certain the market's going
to drop, obviously you get out now

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and wait for it to drop and rebuy
in, but I don't know.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, we'll just jump into the

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show because yeah, Doug was just
such a great guest and yeah.

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Another thank you to the city of
Kelowna.

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We've had on multiple city of
Kelowna guests and they've all

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been amazing.

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So appreciate you guys.

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They have all been amazing.

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you guys.

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They have all been amazing.

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They all come back too.

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So it's a, Taylor and I are doing
something right there also.

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Yeah.

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All right, guys.

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This show, like every show, is
sponsored by Century 21 Assurance

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Realty.

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We just acquired executives'

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property rentals.

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So we are like going hard in the

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property rental management.

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That is a big part of Century 21

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Assurance Realty now.

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So we are not only growing in

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geographical locations, we're all
over the interior, growing in

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Kelowna, Burnin, Kamloops,
Kootenays, Cruston.

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We also are doing the same thing
with property management.

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So we are a... brokerage on the
up.

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So if you are a buyer, seller,
investor that looking for a

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property manager or a brokerage to
call, or if you're an agent

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looking for a brokerage to hang
your hat at, I think we're the

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right one.

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Enjoy the show, you guys.

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Okay.

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Doug Gilchrist, thanks for coming

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on the show, man.

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How are you doing today?

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Fantastic.

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First day of snow, but it looks at

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things out there or very close to
it.

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So winter's here and we're
cruising along in the city.

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I think I just heard a big cheer
from Big White hearing you say

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that.

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Yeah, a bit of a delayed opening,

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but thankfully there, I think
today's opening day.

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So I'll have to check the hallways
and see who's around.

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Can you just give us a quick
background on yourself?

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Like what is the CAO for city of
Kelowna and yeah, what's

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specifically your role there?
So CAO, chief administrative

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officer or city manager, as many
people call the job.

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So I'm council's single employee.

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I report to council and the rest

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of the organization reports up to
me through my senior leadership

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team.

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Yeah, I've been here 22 years with

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the city almost and almost eight
years as the CAO or the city

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manager.

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And it's a blast.

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Being able to do what we do in
city building in Kelowna is like

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just one of the best jobs there
could be.

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We're at an opportune time.

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But Kelowna kind of maturing and

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growing right now.

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It's a ton of fun.

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Yeah.

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I got to say, like hearing from

257
00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:36,840
realtors and obviously in our
world, Kelowna, you're running a

258
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,020
pretty well -oiled ship there.

259
00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:40,980
So it could work.

260
00:07:40,980 --> 00:07:42,360
It's got a great reputation.

261
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,280
Yeah, thank you.

262
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,200
Yeah, we're pretty proud of what
we're doing and some of the things

263
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,680
we're doing that are
groundbreaking and, you know,

264
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,380
winning awards and getting kudos
to the staff that are putting so

265
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,160
much time and passion into it.

266
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,000
We're really, really excited about

267
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:55,200
it.

268
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,160
I know in your world, we're going

269
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,440
through a tough cycle in real
estate, but we're doing what we

270
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,880
can to support the industry for
sure.

271
00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,500
Well, you said cycle.

272
00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:05,520
We're all used to it.

273
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,020
Ups, downs, beauties are here for
the ride.

274
00:08:07,020 --> 00:08:09,380
So we're making the most good.

275
00:08:09,380 --> 00:08:09,840
It'll come.

276
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:10,480
Exactly.

277
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:11,120
good.

278
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,340
With some kind of recent
information, you were just talking

279
00:08:13,340 --> 00:08:14,620
about getting a budget approved.

280
00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:16,690
Do you want to highlight kind of

281
00:08:16,690 --> 00:08:17,730
anything interesting in the budget
coming out?

282
00:08:17,730 --> 00:08:18,010
Sure.

283
00:08:18,010 --> 00:08:19,710
I mean, there's lots of exciting

284
00:08:19,710 --> 00:08:20,350
stuff in there.

285
00:08:20,350 --> 00:08:22,990
For the most part, we try to make

286
00:08:22,990 --> 00:08:25,090
sure we're investing in the things
that people are talking about,

287
00:08:25,090 --> 00:08:27,250
right?
The things that people are calling

288
00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:28,950
us about, they're asking for,
they're getting into the council's

289
00:08:28,950 --> 00:08:32,289
priority list and make sure we're
investing in those things first.

290
00:08:32,289 --> 00:08:33,210
Public safety is top of the list.

291
00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:34,789
So we're putting 10 new bodies

292
00:08:34,789 --> 00:08:36,030
into public safety, four in the
RCMP.

293
00:08:36,150 --> 00:08:40,030
four into fire and two into bylaw
to try and bolster those areas to

294
00:08:40,030 --> 00:08:46,360
get a handle on the challenges we
have out there on our street.

295
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:47,540
And I think we're turning the
corner.

296
00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:51,260
You know, things are improving in
certain areas if you actually look

297
00:08:51,260 --> 00:08:51,880
at the data.

298
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,840
You know, we're hopeful on that

299
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:54,020
front.

300
00:08:54,020 --> 00:08:55,140
Tons of money going into

301
00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:55,380
infrastructure.

302
00:08:55,380 --> 00:08:56,300
you know we started building the

303
00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:58,160
new parkinson rec center a few
months back we broke ground and

304
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,460
that's going full steam ahead
that's our biggest capital project

305
00:09:00,460 --> 00:09:03,040
in history actually the parkinson
rec center rebuild and alongside

306
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,980
that we're building three
community centers one in rutland

307
00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:07,980
one in glenmore and one in the
mission two of those will have

308
00:09:07,980 --> 00:09:12,030
daycares two of them will have
full -size gyms in them tons of

309
00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:14,350
community space the rutland will
have a community kitchen so really

310
00:09:14,350 --> 00:09:16,610
Cool distribution of new amenities
for our community and tons more

311
00:09:16,610 --> 00:09:17,550
hardcore for sport community as
well.

312
00:09:17,550 --> 00:09:18,090
Those are pretty exciting.

313
00:09:18,090 --> 00:09:19,170
Where does the funding come from?

314
00:09:19,290 --> 00:09:20,890
Do you guys get grants
provincially, federally for that

315
00:09:20,890 --> 00:09:22,950
as well, or is it mostly drawn out
of our?

316
00:09:22,950 --> 00:09:23,270
our taxes.

317
00:09:23,270 --> 00:09:25,520
Yeah, I think this is kind of a

318
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:26,340
misconception about how we're
funded.

319
00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:27,760
So thanks for bringing it up.

320
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,220
City of Kelowna is a bit unique

321
00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:30,400
compared to many communities.

322
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,040
We have a very low reliance on

323
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:33,340
taxation.

324
00:09:33,340 --> 00:09:35,620
So our operational budget, we just

325
00:09:35,620 --> 00:09:40,420
tipped over a billion dollars to
run the city for 2026.

326
00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:42,200
Only 20 % of that is funded from
property taxes.

327
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,320
The rest is from own source
revenues, meaning fees, grants,

328
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:45,780
reserves, partnership funding,
that type of thing.

329
00:09:45,780 --> 00:09:50,160
So yeah, we get a little bit of
money from the province and the

330
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:50,680
Fed.

331
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,280
depending on how successful we are

332
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,440
at applying for grad programs.

333
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,180
But we're relying more on

334
00:09:56,180 --> 00:09:59,760
generating our own revenues and
trying to, you know, take some of

335
00:09:59,860 --> 00:10:01,080
the burden off the taxpayer.

336
00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,760
In comparison, there are

337
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,600
communities in BC that are more
than 75 % tax reliant.

338
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,200
We're the flip side of that.

339
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:06,460
That's awesome.

340
00:10:06,460 --> 00:10:08,940
And I guess like historically, is
that kind of always where we've

341
00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:10,300
been?
Like, have we been a pretty, I

342
00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:11,460
guess, net cash flow?
Not always.

343
00:10:11,460 --> 00:10:11,860
always.

344
00:10:11,860 --> 00:10:13,240
It's a very purposeful trend.

345
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,960
You know, we have generated
revenue through things like our

346
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,540
own dark fiber system that
generates private money.

347
00:10:18,540 --> 00:10:22,180
We open our box office platform,
selling tickets throughout Kelowna

348
00:10:22,180 --> 00:10:23,640
generates some revenue for us.

349
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,360
Certainly our airport is self

350
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:25,640
-funded.

351
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,040
Our utilities are self -funded

352
00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:31,200
through their fees.

353
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,580
We've been in a probably a good

354
00:10:32,580 --> 00:10:33,860
financial position as a city for a
long time.

355
00:10:33,860 --> 00:10:36,900
And now I'd say we've moved into
like a pretty enviable financial

356
00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:37,280
position.

357
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,200
We have done very, very well on

358
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:40,880
our investments.

359
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,660
And then we use that investment

360
00:10:42,660 --> 00:10:43,600
income to offset taxation as well.

361
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,500
And it benefits everybody by

362
00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:47,700
trying to keep taxes low.

363
00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:49,540
For the last three years, we've

364
00:10:49,540 --> 00:10:52,200
been the second lowest tax
increase of any community in BC.

365
00:10:52,380 --> 00:10:54,280
And I expect that trend to
continue.

366
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:54,420
Wow.

367
00:10:54,420 --> 00:10:55,900
You said at the beginning of the

368
00:10:56,020 --> 00:10:58,060
show, like how exciting, like what
a cool job to.

369
00:10:58,060 --> 00:11:02,360
make decisions on infrastructure
like the airport or you know i

370
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,340
think matt wanted to talk about
like hotel locations and asset

371
00:11:05,340 --> 00:11:09,400
allocation like acquiring some of
these properties yeah so i guess

372
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,000
the big one is the city bought the
property right behind like you

373
00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:18,600
bought the marina and so i guess
the big one is the city bought the

374
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,680
property right behind like you
bought the marina and a bunch of

375
00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:22,140
lots around that.

376
00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:23,500
Like what was the idea?

377
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:27,160
What's the plan with that?
The vision, I don't think for that

378
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:27,980
site has changed.

379
00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:28,760
This council, the previous

380
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,560
council, the vision is still to
have a major flag hotel there.

381
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,760
Higher end, higher class hotel in
their downtown.

382
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,440
I mean, it's an A location.

383
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,840
We expect to have an A tenant.

384
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,240
But it wasn't materializing.

385
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,400
Current market and the current

386
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,140
ownership group, they were
struggling to get it off the

387
00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:43,400
ground.

388
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:43,940
Unfortunately, Westcorp was a

389
00:11:43,940 --> 00:11:46,910
great group to deal with, and they
took a good run at it multiple

390
00:11:46,910 --> 00:11:50,310
times and just came up against
some difficult roadblocks with

391
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:51,810
COVID and the changing marketplace
and things like that.

392
00:11:51,810 --> 00:11:56,750
So we believe that getting it into
our hands, we can take a bit of a

393
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:57,470
different approach, an
international marketing approach,

394
00:11:57,470 --> 00:12:00,090
and attract a developer, a
financer, and a flag.

395
00:12:00,090 --> 00:11:56,750
They can ultimately get that
vision into reality.

396
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:57,470
So we bought the marina.

397
00:11:57,470 --> 00:11:59,530
What's currently a parking lot is

398
00:11:59,530 --> 00:12:02,730
the primary site and an office
building just up on Queensway, a

399
00:12:02,830 --> 00:12:03,790
little bit further that West Corp
owned.

400
00:12:03,790 --> 00:12:03,870
Yeah.

401
00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:05,130
We bought it at market value.

402
00:12:05,130 --> 00:12:09,350
The intention is to have a three
to five year hold and then make

403
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:12,390
sure that during that period,
we're doing our diligence with

404
00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:16,930
getting it out to market in the
right hands to build that hotel

405
00:12:16,930 --> 00:12:18,010
that we're looking for.

406
00:12:18,010 --> 00:12:19,750
So are you planning on holding

407
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,200
onto the land and like just
finding an operator, a hotel

408
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,620
operator to develop it?
city going to be part owner of the

409
00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:28,320
hotel or how do you envision that
at this point the deal structure

410
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,220
is not clearly understood it
depends what the submissions are

411
00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:34,900
that come in through a an rfp type
of a process but uh likely

412
00:12:34,900 --> 00:12:38,200
disposition you know we may not
dispose of the land immediately we

413
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,060
may you know vend that into a
bigger development deal and then

414
00:12:41,060 --> 00:12:46,110
transfer it a bit later on in the
process to help the advance the

415
00:12:46,110 --> 00:12:49,150
development this point the deal
structure is not clearly

416
00:12:49,150 --> 00:12:51,750
understood it depends what the
submissions are that come in

417
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:56,010
through a an rfp type of a process
but uh likely disposition you know

418
00:12:56,010 --> 00:12:59,430
we may not dispose of the land
immediately we may you know vend

419
00:12:59,430 --> 00:13:02,050
that into a bigger development
deal and then transfer it a bit

420
00:13:02,050 --> 00:13:05,470
later on in the process to help
the advance the development But

421
00:13:05,470 --> 00:13:07,610
ultimately, yeah, we'll transfer
that back out to the private

422
00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:07,710
owner.

423
00:13:07,710 --> 00:13:08,970
I'm assuming it's going to play

424
00:13:08,970 --> 00:13:10,230
off the site around the mill.

425
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:11,650
Is that they're going to kind of

426
00:13:11,650 --> 00:13:14,450
mutually benefit each other?
Yeah, we think there's a fair bit

427
00:13:14,450 --> 00:13:16,200
of capacity in Kelowna for
additional hotels, some

428
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,180
conference, eventually convention,
but certainly some conference

429
00:13:17,180 --> 00:13:18,280
space that will complement what we
have today.

430
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,020
You know, the Grant Hotel is a
fantastic hotel, great location,

431
00:13:21,020 --> 00:13:22,360
good amenities, and it has
conference space.

432
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,680
But the larger conference need
more than just that downtown for

433
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:26,280
sure.

434
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,520
I know the Tolko mill site plan

435
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:29,540
envisions a hotel there.

436
00:13:29,540 --> 00:13:30,760
I know we're just directly

437
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,560
adjacent to the mill site.

438
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:34,200
There's some land owned by Argus

439
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,380
where they envision a hotel there.

440
00:13:35,380 --> 00:13:37,320
We think this site as well.

441
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,020
So I think our downtown in the
long run can handle certainly two,

442
00:13:21,020 --> 00:13:22,220
three more hotels without any
challenge.

443
00:13:22,220 --> 00:13:22,360
Yeah.

444
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:23,800
And I mean, talking about

445
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,000
conference centers as well, I know
the Woodfire Bakery site like that

446
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:28,180
building.

447
00:13:28,180 --> 00:13:29,900
Obviously, I don't think the city

448
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,880
is involved in that, but they're
talking about building a fairly

449
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,200
large conference center there, I
guess.

450
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,320
To me, it seems like a lot of
hotels, but obviously the data

451
00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:39,810
supports that you guys have
capacity.

452
00:13:39,810 --> 00:13:42,970
What direction like are we trying
to go for, you know, in 10, 15, 20

453
00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:45,170
years from now as like a. you
know, where our economics are?

454
00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:48,510
Like, are we still trying to be a
tourist town, obviously?

455
00:13:48,510 --> 00:13:48,690
Yeah.

456
00:13:48,690 --> 00:13:50,490
So moving to major events and

457
00:13:50,490 --> 00:13:55,290
being a destination location, you
know, it takes the infrastructure.

458
00:13:55,290 --> 00:13:57,650
You've got to have the pieces in
order to attract.

459
00:13:57,890 --> 00:14:01,350
And sometimes it's a build it and
they will come type of scenario.

460
00:14:01,350 --> 00:14:05,830
But what we're seeing now with,
you know, Skate Canada, Memorial

461
00:14:05,830 --> 00:14:09,830
Cup, the BC Lions coming to town,
you know, BC Summer Games will be

462
00:14:09,830 --> 00:14:12,570
right on the heel of that next
year.

463
00:14:12,570 --> 00:14:13,690
The Briar in 25.

464
00:14:13,690 --> 00:14:14,690
These are major international

465
00:14:14,690 --> 00:14:15,950
events that have put us.

466
00:14:15,950 --> 00:14:17,590
on the map in that world.

467
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:19,690
And there's people knocking on our
door.

468
00:14:19,690 --> 00:14:23,110
So we know that we have to make
sure the facilities, the beds, the

469
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:25,550
amenities that people are looking
for are here.

470
00:14:25,550 --> 00:14:26,870
So we're building towards that for
sure.

471
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:30,190
I mean, it kind of segues a little
bit into like the short -term

472
00:14:30,190 --> 00:14:31,540
rental legislation.

473
00:14:31,540 --> 00:14:32,360
I know it's currently, you know,

474
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,040
the city's had conversations with
the province, but I guess, are you

475
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,120
guys also then seeing a benefit
that, hey, if there are... you

476
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,380
know, three hotels in the downtown
core, then that would kind of

477
00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:41,340
alleviate this hot topic.

478
00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:43,140
Like it wouldn't be such a an

479
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,540
industry where maybe people are
looking to invest in?

480
00:14:45,540 --> 00:14:49,640
Yeah, so council is going to have
to debate that, make a decision on

481
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:49,900
policy.

482
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:50,980
From my perspective, there's room

483
00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:51,660
for both.

484
00:14:51,940 --> 00:14:54,160
Maybe not in the form that we used

485
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,120
to have, where it was in every
neighborhood and creating, you

486
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,560
know, some disruptions in the
single family kind of

487
00:14:58,560 --> 00:14:58,920
neighborhoods.

488
00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:00,280
But for those projects that were

489
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,860
built to accommodate and support
short -term rentals, what used to

490
00:15:02,860 --> 00:15:04,260
be called our old C9.

491
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,240
tourist commercial zoning like

492
00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:09,720
around or aquas and places like
that yeah you know those are

493
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,580
probably the ones we're going to
recommend that they get an

494
00:15:11,980 --> 00:15:15,560
exemption and that they'd be
allowed to have short -term

495
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,040
rentals subject to the strata i
mean the strata ultimately will

496
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,280
decide if they want it in their
building but we will likely be

497
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,900
making a recommendation to have
some of those projects approved

498
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:27,660
for an exemption and then the
province has to make a decision

499
00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:29,780
ideally the province could make
that decision a little more

500
00:15:29,780 --> 00:15:33,660
accelerated basis we'd love to see
may 1st so that for all these

501
00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:37,860
major events that are coming next
year you know we have some options

502
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:41,440
for people that are visiting i was
going to just ask because gavin do

503
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,510
is in victoria like talking about
they can't change it until the end

504
00:15:45,510 --> 00:15:48,930
of november or something and he
wants to accelerate that so

505
00:15:48,930 --> 00:15:53,160
obviously there is a bit of
support from you guys for what

506
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,660
he's talking about down there was
going to just ask because gavin do

507
00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,700
is in victoria like talking about
they can't change it until the end

508
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:01,500
of november or something and he
wants to accelerate that so

509
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:04,360
obviously there is a bit of
support from you guys for what

510
00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:06,720
he's talking about down there Oh,
yeah, for sure.

511
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,080
I think what he's proposed makes
total sense.

512
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,880
Really, he's just talking about a
timing change.

513
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,000
Legislation is there already for
exemptions, so long as we meet the

514
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,880
test for vacancy rate, which we
expect we will exceed that.

515
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,300
When the data comes out, I think
maybe within a few weeks,

516
00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:21,640
actually.

517
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,080
And when that data comes out, then

518
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,120
we can go to council, apply for
the exemption, and then hopefully

519
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,160
negotiate an accelerated approval
timeline from the province and not

520
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,840
have to wait till November of next
year.

521
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,100
You guys had a bit of a change of
heart, because when the...

522
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:35,200
Provincial rules came out.

523
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,480
You added a few more on top of

524
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,720
that for City of Kelowna.

525
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:39,060
What happened?

526
00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:43,520
Was it just public outcry or was
it the economy or like what made

527
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,740
you change your mind on that?
A little bit of everything.

528
00:16:45,740 --> 00:16:48,520
And I'm not sure I'd categorize it
as changing our mind because we

529
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,720
won't go back to what we had many
years ago where it was just

530
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:52,440
allowed everywhere.

531
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:53,580
Council put those restrictions in

532
00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:55,060
place for a reason, and the
complaints were through the roof

533
00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:57,140
in terms of neighborhood
disruptions that were happening.

534
00:16:57,140 --> 00:16:58,300
You know, stag, stagettes
happening every weekend all summer

535
00:16:58,300 --> 00:16:59,020
long in some neighborhoods.

536
00:16:59,020 --> 00:16:49,280
It's just not tolerable, right,

537
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:50,000
for some people.

538
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,180
Happened in my neighborhood.

539
00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:53,260
A bunch of neighbors were pissed.

540
00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:54,560
So we won't go back to that, I'm

541
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:54,780
quite sure.

542
00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:56,640
So it'll be a more thoughtful

543
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,040
allocation of where short -term
rentals are appropriate, the types

544
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,380
of buildings they can be in, the
neighborhoods that they can be in,

545
00:17:00,380 --> 00:17:00,940
and so on.

546
00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:02,960
So I wouldn't say it's a complete

547
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,400
change of heart, but we recognize
that it is a challenge for some

548
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,020
people who need that revenue to
pay the mortgages or what have

549
00:17:10,020 --> 00:17:10,339
you.

550
00:17:10,339 --> 00:17:12,460
And it's also an important piece

551
00:17:12,460 --> 00:17:14,000
of the tourist economy, have those
options available.

552
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,780
People have just gotten used to
having that broad set of options.

553
00:17:16,780 --> 00:17:20,180
On the flip side, we also don't
want to have it proliferate too

554
00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:23,760
much and have an impact on the
hoteliers that have built

555
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,060
infrastructure and employ people
and so on.

556
00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:26,920
It would strike a balance, I
guess, a political answer, but we

557
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,020
get a strike.

558
00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:29,870
Well, it does make sense to allow

559
00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:32,010
the buildings that were built for
this, at least have the choice

560
00:17:32,190 --> 00:17:35,250
now, I guess, the strata, like you
said, the strata will still have

561
00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:38,350
to vote for it, but they're built
with this in mind, kind of makes

562
00:17:38,350 --> 00:17:38,450
sense.

563
00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:40,270
With that said, with our local

564
00:17:40,270 --> 00:17:43,430
economy, maybe you have very good
insight, but we've kind of spoken

565
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:46,110
to a vast collective... guests on
both sides of the fence, right?

566
00:17:46,110 --> 00:17:49,840
And we have some that are small
business operators expressing that

567
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,340
their business is down quite a bit
because of short -term rentals or

568
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:56,300
fires or like a, you know,
compounding effects.

569
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,620
And then we have other people that
are expressing quite the opposite.

570
00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:02,140
Where are you guys seeing it from
a city standpoint?

571
00:18:02,140 --> 00:18:03,100
The city's still growing.

572
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,300
People are still moving here.

573
00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:07,620
We're still issuing building
permits, development permits.

574
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,060
We're seeing our business licenses
increase.

575
00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:11,000
It's moving in the right
direction.

576
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,240
It's just at a slower pace than
people were accustomed to.

577
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,380
And unfortunately, you know, we
see...

578
00:18:15,420 --> 00:18:17,920
Fairly dramatic swings sometimes
in the economy and the real estate

579
00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:18,500
industry.

580
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:20,000
In my 20 odd years here, I find

581
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,000
that Kelowna bucks the trend a
little bit.

582
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,960
We don't see the dramatic swings
that you see, particularly in real

583
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,180
estate, like in, say, Toronto and
Vancouver, you know, falling off a

584
00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:27,460
cliff.

585
00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:29,380
Ours have declined, but not to the

586
00:18:29,380 --> 00:18:30,020
same degree.

587
00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:31,120
So as a really attractive place

588
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:35,000
that I think is well positioned,
hopefully seen as being well run,

589
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,100
financially stable, we'll buck
that trend a little bit.

590
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:40,860
and come out of the other side of
this hopefully sooner than others.

591
00:18:40,860 --> 00:18:42,880
Our airport's a perfect example of
that.

592
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,080
Coming out of COVID, our airport
was the fastest growing and

593
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,180
fastest recovering airport in
Canada, where this year the

594
00:18:47,180 --> 00:18:49,740
airport's going to grow at about 9
% passenger traffic.

595
00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:50,060
Wow.

596
00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:51,280
Our busiest year on record, our

597
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:52,960
busiest month ever was in August,
and we might eclipse that in

598
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:53,100
December.

599
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:54,320
So there's lots of positive

600
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,680
indicators that Colonus is on a
great trajectory.

601
00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,160
This is probably a tough question,
but do you know why the growth is

602
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,040
so fast at the airport?
Obviously, capacity is growing in

603
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,270
terms of what it can handle, but
are people traveling away from

604
00:19:07,390 --> 00:19:09,130
Kelowna for vacations more,
meaning our economy, we have

605
00:19:09,130 --> 00:19:12,010
disposable income, or is it mostly
tourists coming in?

606
00:19:12,010 --> 00:19:14,690
well we're seeing growth on both
sides but the domestic traffic

607
00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:17,710
certainly is up and our team works
really hard on going after new

608
00:19:17,710 --> 00:19:21,210
routes you know it's not a passive
approach that when an airline

609
00:19:21,210 --> 00:19:23,770
comes to us we'll accommodate them
we're out there pounding the

610
00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:26,310
pavement working with the airlines
trying to develop new routes

611
00:19:26,410 --> 00:19:31,300
direct wherever possible or to
major hubs like la and seattle

612
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:33,820
places like that so we can get the
international people up here And

613
00:19:33,820 --> 00:19:38,530
remember, you know, Canada is 40 %
off for everybody in the US right

614
00:19:38,530 --> 00:19:38,770
now.

615
00:19:38,770 --> 00:19:39,550
So it's, it's pretty attractive

616
00:19:39,550 --> 00:19:44,010
place to come ski and go to a
winery, get a hotel, rent a boat,

617
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:44,590
right?
Yeah, very much.

618
00:19:44,590 --> 00:19:45,150
That's awesome.

619
00:19:45,150 --> 00:19:47,190
I didn't realize it kind of came

620
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:48,210
from the city down.

621
00:19:48,210 --> 00:19:50,630
Like you guys are involved in, in

622
00:19:50,910 --> 00:19:53,450
going out and drumming up that
business for the airport.

623
00:19:53,550 --> 00:19:53,790
Yeah.

624
00:19:53,790 --> 00:19:55,890
For clarity, the airport is owned

625
00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:56,790
by the city.

626
00:19:56,790 --> 00:19:58,710
It's the largest municipally owned

627
00:19:58,710 --> 00:19:59,750
airport in Canada.

628
00:20:00,150 --> 00:20:01,890
So they report through me and

629
00:20:02,130 --> 00:20:03,510
council oversees them.

630
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:04,430
We have an airport advisory

631
00:20:04,430 --> 00:20:07,050
committee where we invite people
from all around the region to sit

632
00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:10,670
at the advisory table to make sure
we're serving the entire region.

633
00:20:10,670 --> 00:20:13,470
But it's, yeah, owned and operated
by the city.

634
00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:17,150
Okay, so Doug, Taylor and I have a
hockey team.

635
00:20:17,150 --> 00:20:21,190
We run a hockey team and we're
going to take our team on a

636
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:22,250
destination tournament somewhere.

637
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:24,910
I wanted to go to Nashville, but

638
00:20:24,910 --> 00:20:27,050
the team have vetoed it because
there's no direct light.

639
00:20:27,410 --> 00:20:30,070
So if we can get a direct light to
Nashville.

640
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:30,450
There you go.

641
00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:32,410
There you go.

642
00:20:32,410 --> 00:20:34,390
That one sounds like it's less
about hockey and more about the

643
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:34,610
party.

644
00:20:34,610 --> 00:20:35,150
Yeah, exactly.

645
00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:38,230
Oh, listen to Petro Music 2 as a
byproduct.

646
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:40,970
Well, to be clear, we're like 2
and 11 right now.

647
00:20:40,970 --> 00:20:42,890
So yeah, we're not about the
hockey.

648
00:20:43,050 --> 00:20:46,310
I don't think we're going to win
the tournament, but you know,

649
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:49,340
think we're going to win the
tournament, but you know, like,

650
00:20:49,340 --> 00:20:50,380
it'll be fun.

651
00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:52,740
Yeah, there's a lot of directs

652
00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:55,100
that people would love to see or
see come back.

653
00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:57,680
Hawaii is one of the most popular
requests I think we get.

654
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,360
But yeah, there's plenty of them.

655
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:01,100
As the airline industry sort of

656
00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,380
matures and comes back from the
turmoil they went through, you

657
00:21:04,380 --> 00:21:07,580
know, directs is certainly on our
radar.

658
00:21:07,580 --> 00:21:10,320
It's kind of coming full circle
from, you know, like that's what

659
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:11,340
you're talking about when.

660
00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:13,680
The city has investments that are

661
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,460
doing well, that's generating
income, and therefore you guys can

662
00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:15,880
reinvest it.

663
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,820
Like, is the airport like one of

664
00:21:17,820 --> 00:21:19,180
the main investments to generating
that revenue then?

665
00:21:19,180 --> 00:21:20,580
The airport certainly is
supporting other industry.

666
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:22,640
airport certainly is supporting
other industry.

667
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,420
I mean, for us, we have a healthy
development industry.

668
00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:27,380
We have a healthy film industry,
which is growing like crazy right

669
00:21:27,380 --> 00:21:27,600
now.

670
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:28,540
Tech and innovation industry and

671
00:21:28,540 --> 00:21:29,680
AO supports that as well.

672
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,160
For us, it's making sure that we

673
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,790
have the pieces of the puzzle in
place to help influence those

674
00:21:34,790 --> 00:21:35,210
industries.

675
00:21:35,210 --> 00:21:37,130
Because we're not an industry,

676
00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:38,450
right?
We want to support the industries.

677
00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:40,130
But where we can stimulate
economic development, like

678
00:21:40,130 --> 00:21:43,070
bringing in major events, I don't
think people realize how much

679
00:21:43,070 --> 00:21:43,570
economic development that
supports.

680
00:21:43,570 --> 00:21:46,810
Like the two BC Lions games that
are coming in, we're going to be

681
00:21:46,970 --> 00:21:48,170
building a festival around that.

682
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:49,050
And all through the week, you

683
00:21:49,050 --> 00:21:50,030
know, it's a Canada Day week.

684
00:21:50,030 --> 00:21:51,410
So we're going to have a massive

685
00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:53,610
festival related to those two
games.

686
00:21:53,610 --> 00:21:56,010
And the economic development
formula, the national formula that

687
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:57,470
we use for forecasting economic
development for major events,

688
00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:59,750
suggests that that's going to be
upwards of $70 million for Kelowna

689
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:59,750
in one week.

690
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:01,760
So you think of different ways you

691
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:02,520
can influence economic
development.

692
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,640
This is a pretty direct way of
getting money into our economy and

693
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:06,460
supporting local business.

694
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:08,000
So major events is something that

695
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,420
this council has highlighted and
we're going after it in a big way.

696
00:22:11,620 --> 00:22:13,340
And we just had the CCMAs, which
were very successful, weren't

697
00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:12,400
they?
Yeah, that was just under 20

698
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:12,600
million.

699
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,020
We did a post event analysis,

700
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,660
almost 20 million bucks into the
economy for that week that they

701
00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:16,960
were here.

702
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,140
You know, by all accounts, it was

703
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:19,460
pretty successful.

704
00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:21,300
I heard a lot of people say, why

705
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:24,400
do we go anywhere else in Canada?
Can't we just come back here every

706
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,360
year?
So it gets my boat.

707
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:27,500
Yeah, I'd like to.

708
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:29,300
In your position, how do you

709
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:30,500
quantify success?
Is it mostly generating revenue?

710
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:32,900
And I guess second question to
that would be like, what levers do

711
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:37,200
you have access to pull on?
Is it going up and getting those

712
00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:40,000
events to come in and then
reinvesting in the infrastructure

713
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,100
to then?
get bigger events and like it

714
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:44,100
continues that way there's a few
different things i mean we

715
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:45,580
actively go after them you know
really solid submissions to go

716
00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:48,400
after these events like the
memorial cup was a great

717
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,720
partnership with the rockets and
memorial cup committee great

718
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,920
videos hlers like a really cool
partnership and when we went after

719
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,470
that we knew it was gonna be
pretty hard to say no the quality

720
00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:00,570
of that submission that everybody
put together collectively so yeah

721
00:23:00,570 --> 00:23:03,710
we could be proactive and go after
them we have to have the

722
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:08,170
facilities a few different things
i mean we actively go after them

723
00:23:08,170 --> 00:23:11,390
you know really solid submissions
to go after these events like the

724
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:14,750
memorial cup was a great
partnership with the rockets and

725
00:23:14,750 --> 00:23:16,750
memorial cup committee great
videos hlers like a really cool

726
00:23:16,750 --> 00:23:19,530
partnership and when we went after
that we knew it was gonna be

727
00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:21,950
pretty hard to say no the quality
of that submission that everybody

728
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:26,750
put together collectively so yeah
we could be proactive and go after

729
00:23:26,990 --> 00:23:30,450
them we have to have the
facilities You know, look at the

730
00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:32,870
facility and say, yeah, that
thing's going to work perfectly

731
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:33,370
for us.

732
00:23:33,370 --> 00:23:37,510
So if you look at what used to be

733
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:40,790
called the Island Stage, now I
guess it's the Peninsula Stage,

734
00:23:40,790 --> 00:23:43,510
Waterfront Park there in front of
the Grand.

735
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:47,590
When we rebuilt that, we built it
on the advice of Live Nation and

736
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:49,990
we talked to them about, you know,
what size of venue, how many

737
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:51,890
people is the sweet spot for this
location?

738
00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:54,580
What does the stage lead to look
like?

739
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,820
You know, the sound system, the
electrical, all that kind of

740
00:23:56,820 --> 00:23:57,080
stuff.

741
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,940
Access points for security.

742
00:23:58,940 --> 00:24:01,860
all of those things so when we
built that or rebuilt that we

743
00:24:01,860 --> 00:24:04,200
designed for the marketplace you
know live nations now got us on

744
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,200
the radar and they will populate
that as best they can working with

745
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,160
our local promoters and so on and
we can put between three and five

746
00:24:10,620 --> 00:24:14,530
thousand people in there and do a
beautiful outdoor concert in a

747
00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:18,690
venue that you know second to none
yeah just even sitting there

748
00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:20,730
without a concert going on is
amazing very cool just even

749
00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:23,750
sitting there without a concert
going on is amazing very cool All

750
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:27,570
right, Doug, I want to talk about
the rail trail and the tent cities

751
00:24:27,570 --> 00:24:28,270
around it.

752
00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:29,550
The Clement connector is going to

753
00:24:29,550 --> 00:24:32,490
go through to, where does it go,
to Highway 33 or around that area?

754
00:24:32,490 --> 00:24:35,610
Yeah, so the Clement extension has
been envisioned for many, many

755
00:24:35,610 --> 00:24:35,710
years.

756
00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:37,670
I think we pulled out an official

757
00:24:37,670 --> 00:24:42,130
community plan from 1985 that
showed kind of a dotted line on

758
00:24:42,130 --> 00:24:44,750
the transportation section of that
map to go through there.

759
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:45,590
So we think 40 years is long
enough.

760
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:46,530
It's time to build it.

761
00:24:46,530 --> 00:24:48,190
Unfortunately, it's a very complex

762
00:24:48,190 --> 00:24:50,570
infrastructure project and very,
very expensive, right?

763
00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:51,690
It's got a major gas line.

764
00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:52,550
We got riparian areas.

765
00:24:52,550 --> 00:24:30,950
We got creek crossings, big cuts
and fills, retaining walls, you

766
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:31,530
name it.

767
00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:33,470
So we're well into the design for

768
00:24:33,470 --> 00:24:34,530
that section.

769
00:24:34,530 --> 00:24:36,010
The first piece goes from Spall to

770
00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:38,710
33, 33 to McCurdy, and then
McCurdy out to the airport

771
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:41,510
eventually, all the way through
UBC.

772
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:42,350
Super important piece.

773
00:24:42,350 --> 00:24:44,290
It will support not just... goods

774
00:24:44,290 --> 00:24:45,770
movement people movement but you
know cycling and and hopefully an

775
00:24:45,770 --> 00:24:48,190
alternative mode of transportation
down the road whether that's self

776
00:24:48,190 --> 00:24:51,690
-drive autonomous mini buses or an
lrt or whatever that might be down

777
00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:55,290
the road i want to make sure we're
protecting for that because you

778
00:24:55,290 --> 00:24:57,110
think of the connection to
downtown and there's going to be

779
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:59,730
15 or 20 000 people in our
downtown in the future and those

780
00:24:59,730 --> 00:25:02,450
nodes around midtown ubc the
airport that's going to be a major

781
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:04,610
spy of traffic So yeah, it's
pretty cool.

782
00:25:04,610 --> 00:25:08,370
It's exciting to be part of and it
needs to get done.

783
00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:11,350
Yes, because I guess to bring this
back to the homeless people, like

784
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:13,350
what I hear, obviously, this is
just totally anecdotal.

785
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:15,930
It's just because of the rail
trail where it isn't, it's

786
00:25:15,930 --> 00:25:16,310
basically private.

787
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:17,770
Like at night, there's nobody

788
00:25:17,770 --> 00:25:18,210
there.

789
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:21,390
It's kind of easy to set up the

790
00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:25,130
tents and stuff like that along
there and even downtown and down

791
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:27,390
into the industrial part around
Hollywood there and like.

792
00:25:27,390 --> 00:25:31,270
Do you think this will help to
have more of a spotlight and open

793
00:25:31,270 --> 00:25:35,610
it up a bit for all the traffic?
Or like, what's the plan with this

794
00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:37,390
tent cities?
Is it just to move them around

795
00:25:37,390 --> 00:25:38,470
some while so they don't get
comfortable?

796
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:40,970
Or what's the plan there?
Yeah, I mean, there's no silver

797
00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:41,910
bullet to this issue.

798
00:25:41,910 --> 00:25:44,710
It's a complex thing that kind of

799
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:43,770
plagues communities all across our
country and the U .S.

800
00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:45,010
There's a lot to this.

801
00:25:45,010 --> 00:25:46,860
We could spend an hour just on

802
00:25:46,860 --> 00:25:47,240
this topic, I'm sure.

803
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,340
But in short, you know, we need to

804
00:25:49,340 --> 00:25:51,040
manage the on -street impact.

805
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,500
We need to get people off the

806
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,560
street and into some form of
housing so they can be successful,

807
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,320
you know, in recovering and
whatever it is and get back into

808
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,180
contributing to society.

809
00:26:00,180 --> 00:26:02,360
In the interim, you know, we have

810
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,820
a designated location where people
can camp and we manage that to

811
00:26:05,820 --> 00:26:07,540
great expense of the city.

812
00:26:07,540 --> 00:26:08,620
And we're obligated to that.

813
00:26:08,620 --> 00:26:11,660
By legislation, we have to have a
place where people are allowed to

814
00:26:11,660 --> 00:26:16,400
camp if there's not enough places
for them to live indoors.

815
00:26:16,460 --> 00:26:18,180
And that's the case in Kelowna.

816
00:26:18,180 --> 00:26:19,340
It's very clear cut.

817
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:22,980
So we have to have that location
or have a location.

818
00:26:22,980 --> 00:26:26,300
And we've been successful in
recent times in moving lots of

819
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:29,080
people out of there and into the
tiny homes that we've dealt with

820
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,740
in partnership with the province.

821
00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:31,920
We've had about 115 people, I

822
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,460
think now, or 118 people that have
moved out of those tiny homes and

823
00:26:37,460 --> 00:26:39,200
gone into permanent housing.

824
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,180
Some of them, you know, have

825
00:26:41,180 --> 00:26:43,020
gotten a job.

826
00:26:43,020 --> 00:26:45,380
Some of them have filed a T4, you

827
00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:47,200
know, like it's working.

828
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,020
Maybe not as quickly as everybody

829
00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:49,480
would like.

830
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,040
But that's the nature of a complex

831
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:51,580
issue in our society.

832
00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:53,460
But we got to keep at it.

833
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:56,020
Ultimately, we want to get people
out of that corridor, into

834
00:26:56,020 --> 00:26:57,200
housing, into services, into
treatment.

835
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,200
And for those that are unwilling
to go, into mandatory care.

836
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,440
Our council has been very vocal
about that.

837
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,250
And we've been pretty clear that
we think that's part of the

838
00:27:06,330 --> 00:27:06,430
solution.

839
00:27:06,430 --> 00:27:07,190
There's some folks who just

840
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:09,630
absolutely are a harm to
themselves and a harm to others

841
00:27:09,630 --> 00:27:10,630
and need to go into mandatory
care.

842
00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:12,590
So we're pushing hard for that
too.

843
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:15,870
It's a multi -pronged and complex
issue, but I think we're doing the

844
00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:18,510
right things and we're going to
try and accelerate it.

845
00:27:18,510 --> 00:27:20,730
Sorry, was it provincially or
federally mandated that you guys

846
00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:21,630
have an allocated outdoor space
for tents?

847
00:27:21,630 --> 00:27:21,910
Court decision.

848
00:27:21,910 --> 00:27:22,570
Court decision.

849
00:27:22,570 --> 00:27:26,530
It was a Supreme Court decision
that required that you have to

850
00:27:26,530 --> 00:27:29,560
have one on public land so long as
there aren't enough beds, shelter

851
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:30,800
beds, for someone to go to.

852
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:31,960
So there's more people on the

853
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,380
street than there are empty beds,
then you have to have a space for

854
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:35,040
them to... to habitat.

855
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:35,200
Okay.

856
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,040
Then I guess just to clarify on my
end, if there were enough beds to,

857
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,700
you know, be sufficient to house
those people, you guys wouldn't be

858
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:43,180
mandated to have that outdoor
space, like pending the court

859
00:27:43,180 --> 00:27:43,680
would approve it.

860
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,520
I know we didn't need to go to

861
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:45,740
court.

862
00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:47,160
It's just, let's say we had 50

863
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,760
people on the street and we had 80
beds available.

864
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,440
Then we could tell people not to
camp in any location in our city.

865
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,080
It would be illegal, contrary to
the bar law, and they would have

866
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,580
to be moved into those spaces.

867
00:27:58,580 --> 00:27:58,740
Interesting.

868
00:27:58,740 --> 00:27:58,820
Okay.

869
00:27:58,820 --> 00:27:58,940
Yeah.

870
00:27:58,940 --> 00:28:02,600
I mean, I'm really enjoying
talking with you.

871
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,480
There's a lot of new information
for me here.

872
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,600
Like I'm blown away by this stuff.

873
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,740
I had no idea.

874
00:28:08,740 --> 00:28:11,520
And then you said it's trending in
the right direction.

875
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,560
Like I guess from a measurement
standpoint, do you guys measure

876
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,980
like police incidences or like
people, like you said, like T4

877
00:28:15,980 --> 00:28:18,040
jobs, like healthcare, like how
are we measuring it?

878
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,020
We measure as much as we can.

879
00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:22,520
You know, data is the way to make

880
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,900
our best decisions and our best
investments.

881
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:29,800
So, yeah, we do point in time
counts, how many people are on the

882
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,420
street, how many people are in our
shelters nightly, how many people

883
00:28:32,580 --> 00:28:35,960
have gone into our tiny home
communities and moved out into

884
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,340
permanent housing.

885
00:28:37,340 --> 00:28:40,000
We have a lot of data on this.

886
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,820
We have calls for service to RCMP,
bylaw, fire, overdose incidences,

887
00:28:42,820 --> 00:28:43,560
you name it.

888
00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:45,980
We have data on all of that.

889
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:48,080
In some cases, you know, they
fluctuate.

890
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,850
But through the changes we made to
operating the outdoor sheltering

891
00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:54,230
site on the rail trail there, you
know, we made some significant

892
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:56,070
changes recently by putting fences
around it and having it more

893
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:58,730
controlled access and better
security and so on.

894
00:28:58,730 --> 00:29:01,490
The number of police calls and
bylaw calls and the money

895
00:29:01,490 --> 00:29:04,510
associated with that has gone down
dramatically.

896
00:29:04,510 --> 00:29:07,750
Yeah, and I guess this might be a
bit of a tough question, I guess,

897
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:10,950
but what would be the... best
investment you guys have or will

898
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:13,790
be making in the next couple of
years to help reduce like mental

899
00:29:13,790 --> 00:29:16,470
health issues or homelessness
where are we allocating funds to

900
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:19,900
is it the housing is it mental
health counseling so all of the

901
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:21,680
above we have outreach programs
through interior health you know

902
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,660
try and get people into counseling
or treatment or addiction

903
00:29:23,660 --> 00:29:27,880
treatment so you it's not one or
another for sure but i believe

904
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,820
that collectively one of our best
investments could be mandatory

905
00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:34,340
care all of the above we have
outreach programs through interior

906
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:39,100
health you know try and get people
into counseling or treatment or

907
00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:41,900
addiction treatment so you it's
not one or another for sure but i

908
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:43,840
believe that collectively one of
our best investments could be

909
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,790
mandatory care As a province, we
need to get that in place.

910
00:29:46,790 --> 00:29:49,030
We need to get people in there.

911
00:29:49,030 --> 00:29:51,210
It's not humane to leave them out

912
00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:54,590
there on the street doing what
they're doing, and it's not fair

913
00:29:54,590 --> 00:29:57,070
to the rest of the people that
they affect, the businesses and

914
00:29:57,070 --> 00:29:57,230
society.

915
00:29:57,230 --> 00:29:58,810
So we need to invest in that and

916
00:29:58,810 --> 00:30:00,250
get them into mandatory care and
treatment, in my view.

917
00:30:00,250 --> 00:30:02,470
Some of the people that are
remaining out there on the street,

918
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:05,990
we tend to house the houseable, if
you can follow me, that people

919
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:08,290
that are capable of being housed
are capable of recovering and

920
00:30:08,290 --> 00:30:08,790
living on their own.

921
00:30:08,790 --> 00:30:10,610
We take them first, and then we

922
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,440
leave the folks that are
unhouseable on the street, and it

923
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,440
just gets worse for them, worse
for everybody that they impact.

924
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:20,400
So we've got to deal with those
folks, and that may only be 15 or

925
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,480
20 or 30 in our community.

926
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,240
But we're now at that point where

927
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,580
we've got to... deal with those
folks.

928
00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:30,500
So mandatory care, care, is that
like a new concept that's just

929
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:33,060
kind of becoming acceptable?
Because I heard Wab Canoe in

930
00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:35,200
Manitoba talking about this and
like getting cheers from talking

931
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,040
about this.

932
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,960
And it just seems like when I

933
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,560
heard this, I was like, why
haven't we always been doing this?

934
00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:43,120
Was it just a toxic thing to talk
about until recently?

935
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,780
I think it's actually an old
concept that became unpopular for

936
00:30:46,780 --> 00:30:50,580
various reasons that we stopped
doing as a society and that we

937
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:52,160
realized that that was a mistake.

938
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,880
And we need to bring it back in a

939
00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:59,480
humane way, a compassionate way,
but that it needs to come back.

940
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,000
I mean, there's thousands of
people who used to be in this type

941
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,240
of care in BC that aren't anymore.

942
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,200
And we see them out on our streets

943
00:31:08,420 --> 00:31:08,840
every day.

944
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:10,080
I agree with you.

945
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,500
I don't want to talk about the
whole show on this, but I just

946
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:17,920
have one thing where my wife and I
went out for dinner.

947
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:18,800
This was last year.

948
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,000
So it was in the middle of winter,

949
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,060
it was freezing.

950
00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:23,000
And we just had this person that

951
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,260
was just like doing a totally
unnatural stance.

952
00:31:24,260 --> 00:31:25,180
Like it was freezing.

953
00:31:25,470 --> 00:31:28,790
And I just looked at my wife.

954
00:31:28,790 --> 00:31:32,410
I'm like, who does this help?
that he's just here like this.

955
00:31:32,410 --> 00:31:34,090
Is he benefiting?
Is it business benefiting?

956
00:31:34,090 --> 00:31:36,370
Are we benefiting?
Like who is benefiting by just not

957
00:31:36,370 --> 00:31:39,510
getting this guy into some kind of
care, right?

958
00:31:39,510 --> 00:31:42,210
So I just kind of, I agree with
you too on that.

959
00:31:42,210 --> 00:31:44,010
I just want to tell that story.

960
00:31:44,010 --> 00:31:46,750
I think most people, when you sit

961
00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:50,150
down with them and have a deeper
conversation about it, we

962
00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:53,250
generally agree that it's
necessary and we need to start

963
00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:39,630
putting money into that.

964
00:31:39,630 --> 00:31:40,150
Yeah, I agree.

965
00:31:40,150 --> 00:31:43,030
To kind of get back into real
estate, because we are a real

966
00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:44,010
estate show.

967
00:31:44,010 --> 00:31:46,750
I mean, we talk about lots of

968
00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:47,410
different stuff.

969
00:31:47,410 --> 00:31:49,690
Selfishly, like as an investor, as

970
00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:53,250
someone that is interested in the
industry here, what is an exciting

971
00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:54,700
neighborhood, project,
development, site, location?

972
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:56,860
Like I'm thinking more on a
residential side of things.

973
00:31:56,860 --> 00:31:59,280
And I think your daughter is a
successful agent as well, right?

974
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,300
I've seen her transact some homes.

975
00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:01,440
So yeah, on a like more

976
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:02,940
residential side of things, are
you like...

977
00:32:02,940 --> 00:32:06,490
North Glenmore is really kind of,
we've got some cool plans out

978
00:32:06,490 --> 00:32:07,970
there or we're doing more
permitting in the mission.

979
00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:10,530
Like where are you seeing more
developers being interested?

980
00:32:10,890 --> 00:32:13,390
I know like, you know, purpose
built rentals have been like huge

981
00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:14,870
lately and there are sites
everywhere.

982
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:16,910
Are you guys seeing at a city
level, like single family homes

983
00:32:16,910 --> 00:32:21,030
are kind of coming back in or is
it still purpose built rentals or

984
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:23,210
like condos, like condos have been
struggling right now.

985
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:24,830
So do you have any information on
that?

986
00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:25,210
Yeah, sure.

987
00:32:25,210 --> 00:32:26,070
I can get into that.

988
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:29,250
First of all, my wife's going to
love you for saying that, my

989
00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:29,390
daughter.

990
00:32:29,390 --> 00:32:30,750
Oh, it's to your wife.

991
00:32:30,750 --> 00:32:31,210
I'm sorry.

992
00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:32,210
Well, there you go.

993
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:35,050
She'll love it or I should be
offended one or the other.

994
00:32:35,050 --> 00:32:35,650
I don't know.

995
00:32:35,470 --> 00:32:36,450
Hey, I'm a mortgage broker.

996
00:32:36,450 --> 00:32:38,370
I don't know real estate agents.

997
00:32:38,370 --> 00:32:38,990
Merry Christmas.

998
00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:39,670
Yeah.

999
00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:39,990
Yeah, exactly.

1000
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:45,110
So yeah, there's a couple of key
spots to kind of highlight.

1001
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:48,030
I mean, the Tolko site, the mill
site downtown is probably, you

1002
00:32:48,090 --> 00:32:49,250
know, once in a lifetime
opportunity to build something.

1003
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:50,590
Truly special, right?
Like 40 acres on the waterfront,

1004
00:32:50,590 --> 00:32:52,710
probably one of the best pieces of
real estate in Western Canada.

1005
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:55,230
So that's really exciting.

1006
00:32:55,230 --> 00:32:56,870
That's coming in for rezoning in

1007
00:32:56,870 --> 00:33:00,470
January, probably a public hearing
in February -ish.

1008
00:33:00,470 --> 00:33:03,730
And then hopefully they'll be off
to phase one not too long after

1009
00:33:03,730 --> 00:33:03,870
that.

1010
00:33:03,870 --> 00:33:06,130
So to me, that's the most exciting

1011
00:33:06,130 --> 00:33:09,350
place in the city for the future
residential development.

1012
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:11,450
Of course, it'll have commercial
as well, hotel, waterfront parks,

1013
00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:12,550
transit terminus, you name it.

1014
00:33:12,550 --> 00:33:13,190
It's going to be everything.

1015
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:15,030
And we're super excited about
working with the... the Thorlixson

1016
00:33:15,230 --> 00:33:16,930
family and the whole art
development group on a real

1017
00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:18,030
partnership approach to getting
that done.

1018
00:33:18,110 --> 00:33:19,230
It'll build out, of course, over
many, many years, but, you know,

1019
00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:21,290
get the ball rolling, get the
first piece in the ground.

1020
00:33:21,290 --> 00:33:22,670
north glenmore is another one
there's an area structure plan

1021
00:33:22,750 --> 00:33:23,950
being developed right now for
north glenmore that could see you

1022
00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:28,110
know 15 20 000 residents over the
next 20 or so years out there 20

1023
00:33:28,110 --> 00:33:32,150
30 years out there council will
wrestle with that decision on the

1024
00:33:32,150 --> 00:33:34,940
area structure plan sometime next
year but what i've seen so far it

1025
00:33:34,940 --> 00:33:37,740
looks really good it'd be exciting
area to develop you know with them

1026
00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:40,360
being around the airport and
university and you know, right on

1027
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,200
Glenmore road, the whole Glenmore
recreation park being developed

1028
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:42,340
there.

1029
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:43,700
It's going to be a real cool node

1030
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:45,780
out there in Glenmore between the
kind of in that little valley.

1031
00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:49,300
So those are the kind of the two
highlights I think that are

1032
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:52,900
emerging and are pretty exciting
for the next few years.

1033
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:53,080
Yeah.

1034
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,320
I did reach out to Ryan Smith.

1035
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,860
I was like, Hey, when you guys are
ready to, uh, break the news on

1036
00:33:57,860 --> 00:33:59,240
the Tocal mill site, like we want
to talk.

1037
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,200
Cause that is such a cool piece of
dirt out there.

1038
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:03,100
Like, yeah, it's incredible.

1039
00:34:03,100 --> 00:34:05,540
Yeah, it's been fun to work with

1040
00:34:05,540 --> 00:34:09,340
the developer and the landowners
there.

1041
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:10,840
They're really good folks.

1042
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,900
So the outcome of that process and

1043
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:15,080
the project kickoff when people
see the plans in, I guess,

1044
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,580
probably in January, there'll be a
lot to be excited about.

1045
00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:18,139
That's awesome.

1046
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:20,199
So one last topic is the purpose

1047
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:20,679
-built rentals.

1048
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:23,400
So there's a ton of buildings, as

1049
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,679
Taylor mentioned, that are purpose
-built rental.

1050
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:26,420
Like, what are your thoughts on
that?

1051
00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:29,380
Is it going to continue?
Do you like the CMHC financing

1052
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:30,620
program that's bringing all these
on?

1053
00:34:30,699 --> 00:34:32,380
Or like, what are your thoughts on
that?

1054
00:34:32,380 --> 00:34:37,020
Yeah, so many, many years ago, we
were about 20 % rental and 80 %

1055
00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:39,580
fee simple for sale, like
ownership housing in Kelowna.

1056
00:34:39,580 --> 00:34:40,840
And we made some policy shifts.

1057
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,820
We made some changes to the OCP,

1058
00:34:42,820 --> 00:34:44,699
the permanent growth boundary,
moved towards infill housing,

1059
00:34:44,699 --> 00:34:46,520
incentivized rental, which some
incentives we still have in place

1060
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:47,840
to get more rental built.

1061
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,179
You know, the REITs and the likes

1062
00:34:49,179 --> 00:34:50,159
of investors took notice of that.

1063
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,800
There was a market for that,

1064
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,900
particularly in the Okanagan, and
it sort of took off.

1065
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:00,960
And now, you know, fast forward
10, 15 years, we're now the

1066
00:35:01,140 --> 00:35:01,140
opposite.

1067
00:35:01,140 --> 00:35:02,800
We've been building 80 % rental

1068
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:08,040
and 20 % home ownership for the
last few years, and we're starting

1069
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:10,580
to push towards 90.

1070
00:35:10,580 --> 00:35:12,180
So I think it's becoming towards

1071
00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:16,840
the other end of being out of
balance, and we need to strike a

1072
00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:17,220
different balance.

1073
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,560
And I think that's where...

1074
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,140
Places like the Glenmore sector
plan will see more homeownership

1075
00:35:22,140 --> 00:35:23,540
type of product built, we hope.

1076
00:35:23,540 --> 00:35:24,420
Perhaps the condo market will

1077
00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:27,660
rebound after not building a lot
of for sale condos for a while.

1078
00:35:27,660 --> 00:35:30,200
I like to see that rebound a bit.

1079
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,880
Strike a better balance because we

1080
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,240
know that homeownership in BC and
in Canada is a goal for most

1081
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:36,360
people.

1082
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:38,400
And we hope that we see more of

1083
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,200
that stuff built.

1084
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,160
reasonable price point it's a big

1085
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:46,000
equity builder for a lot of people
too right so we do want to see

1086
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,360
some more homeownership and
perhaps a better balance than

1087
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,600
we're seeing in the last five
years i always knew that

1088
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,360
purposeable rental in the last few
years was you know gaining a lot

1089
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,660
of popularity but that's a pretty
big big weight on that side well

1090
00:35:57,660 --> 00:36:00,780
it's the only thing that makes
sense that the number is pencil

1091
00:36:00,780 --> 00:36:04,660
like you and i talk about this
every day only thing that comes

1092
00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:08,500
close to penciling so it makes
sense that's just what's happening

1093
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:11,600
i've absolutely like loved
speaking with you i am naive to

1094
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,600
always knew that purposeable
rental in the last few years was

1095
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,900
you know gaining a lot of
popularity but that's a pretty

1096
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,440
weight on that side well it's the
only thing that makes sense that

1097
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,060
the number is pencil like you and
i talk about this every day only

1098
00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:25,940
thing that comes close to
penciling so it makes sense that's

1099
00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:28,820
just what's happening absolutely
like loved speaking with you i am

1100
00:36:28,820 --> 00:36:31,900
naive to the city in terms of like
how active you guys are.

1101
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:33,660
Like this has been super
educational for me.

1102
00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:36,220
Like, thank you for coming on
because yeah, I just wasn't aware

1103
00:36:36,220 --> 00:36:38,520
how proactive you guys were about
getting out and getting business

1104
00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:39,700
and it just benefits our community
massively.

1105
00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:41,760
So yeah, I appreciate the work you
guys are doing.

1106
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:42,300
I agree.

1107
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:43,980
So like when I said earlier that

1108
00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:45,840
you guys have a great reputation,
it's true.

1109
00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:49,540
Like everyone I talked to because
I do a lot of work in Burden, like

1110
00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:51,540
country south and like Kelowna is
just way better.

1111
00:36:51,540 --> 00:36:52,460
So I appreciate that.

1112
00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:53,920
It's a bold statement, Matt.

1113
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:54,220
Wow.

1114
00:36:54,380 --> 00:36:55,280
I stand by it.

1115
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,900
So you had a great job.

1116
00:36:56,900 --> 00:36:58,780
He used to do business in Vernon

1117
00:36:58,780 --> 00:36:59,180
and Lake.

1118
00:36:59,180 --> 00:36:59,980
Yeah, no kidding.

1119
00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:00,220
We'll take it.

1120
00:37:00,220 --> 00:37:01,700
Yeah, no. It's been a pleasure,

1121
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,160
fellas, and happy to come on
anytime.

1122
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,980
I love talking about our city and
making sure people have the facts

1123
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:08,740
and the real true understanding of
what goes on.

1124
00:37:08,740 --> 00:37:10,960
You know, there's a lot of
assumptions that get made and

1125
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:11,860
stories that get told.

1126
00:37:11,860 --> 00:37:13,280
Often it's not true, right?

1127
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:14,200
So yeah, thanks for the
opportunity.

1128
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:14,360
Enjoyed it.

1129
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:14,800
Welcome back anytime.

1130
00:37:14,910 --> 00:37:19,430
Yeah, have a great holiday season
and we'll have you back in the new

1131
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:20,390
year for sure.

1132
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:20,950
Right on.

1133
00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:22,270
Thanks for the iPods.