115: Dragons' Den's W. Brett Wilson on BC's Development Challenges & Opportunities for Collaboration Within Western Canada

00:00:00 Taylor Atkinson
Welcome back to the Kelowna Real Estate Podcast. I'm your mortgage broker host, Taylor Atkinson. And I'm your real estate agent host, Matt Glenn. What's happening today, Taylor? A whole lot of nothing. You know, Bank of Canada announcement this week. Yeah. It's neutral. Yeah. Which is honestly probably going to be for the next year, right? Like we're not going to really go up or down unless Greenland gets taken over, unless Venezuela oil gets pumping, like, you know, something globally. But at this stage, everything's just. status quo yeah even if it goes up or down it'll go up a quarter point here and there maybe maybe not even and i don't know i just feel like the interest rates are not a story until at least 2027 or 2028 totally yeah yeah what is the story though super bowl yeah but you got i mean you got to go for the hawks man yeah the closest thing that we have to a home team yeah absolutely we get to rematch the worst play and


00:00:29 Matt Glen
even if it goes up or down it'll go up a quarter point here and there maybe maybe not even and i don't know i just feel like the interest rates are not a story until at least 2027 or 2028 totally yeah


00:00:40 Taylor Atkinson
is the story though super


00:00:42 Matt Glen
bowl yeah


00:00:42 Taylor Atkinson
but you got i mean you got to go for the hawks man yeah


00:00:46 Matt Glen
the closest thing that we have to a home team yeah absolutely we get to rematch the worst play and NFL history or at least Seahawks history when Russell Wilson threw that pass on the one -yard line when they should have ran beast mode in. So we get a rematch. Put this behind us. This is the year. I'm ignorant.


00:01:00 Taylor Atkinson
ignorant. I'm not like that big into football. So correct me. Is this like a bit of a surprise for Super Bowl? Like are these two teams, like I just did not see them kind of coming in for Super Bowl teams.


00:01:14 Matt Glen
Well. At the start of the year, yes, big time. Nobody expected this from either team, but like the Seahawks were the first in the NFC and Patriots were second. So it's not like they came out of nowhere, like they were good all year. But probably halfway through the season, the Seahawks were a real deal. And then like 80 % or 90 % through the season, the Patriots were a real deal. It's a surprise if you look back from September, but end of the season, no, it's not that crazy to see. Although I do think the Hawks are going to win by at least two touchdowns.


00:01:42 Taylor Atkinson
All right. all right i like it that's good confidence well speaking about other things on tv something that's arguably bigger than the super bowl today's guest brett wilson from dragon's den not just from dragon's den yeah obviously that's where kind of people know him from but this guy is massively invested in the kelowna market and really just like such a great conversation i loved speaking to him yeah yeah it was awesome i remember the first time i really heard about him i was working out in global gym there was a poster that brett wilson had bought the property in the gym the global gym so he was like kind of the new owner of the gym we were at that was the first time i really ever heard of him i guess i had heard of him before on dragon's den yeah and then ever since then we've been hearing more and more about him in preparation for the show we realized that he owns like quite a bit of real estate in kelowna i didn't realize that


00:02:07 Matt Glen
yeah it was awesome i remember the first time i really heard about him i was working out in global gym there was a poster that brett wilson had bought the property in the gym the global gym so he was like kind of the new owner of the gym we were at that was the first time i really ever heard of him i guess i had heard of him before on dragon's den yeah and then ever since then we've been hearing more and more about him in preparation for the show we realized that he owns like quite a bit of real estate in kelowna i didn't realize that I knew he owned some obviously, but I didn't realize how much.


00:02:36 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. And I mean, so he comes from the kind of the energy, mineral, oil and gas sector of Alberta, but he's a huge optimistic person of Western Canada and, you know, very opinionated in a good way, right? Like stands behind what he says, but is also very even keeled. Like he can kind of speak to a lot of points, but yeah, it was just a great person to have on the show. A lot of fun and owns it. a lot of real estate in Kelowna, some buy and hold, some redevelopment, but he's very transparent on, you know, what he thinks should happen in the market, what could happen. He's not one of those guys that is like, woe is me. You know, the government's holding us back, whatever. It's like solution orientated. Hey, here's what we're trying to do to move forward. So it was a lot of fun. So I think you guys are going to love this show.


00:03:20 Matt Glen
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. We were asking him like, what asset classes do you like? And asking about residential real estate. He said, I don't know about condos right now. He's like, but work goes down, comes back up, you know? So like condos are down right now. I'm not going to be down forever. I just thought that was kind of an interesting point that he touched on. And all the other opinions too were good to hear. I had to say, I don't know if I agree with all of them, but he is at least not lying about it. He's very honest about it. And you're right. It was refreshing to talk to him. He's a good dude. Yeah. You guys are going to love this show. And this show, like every show, is sponsored by The Best Brokerage. NBC. Yeah, I said it. Century 21, Insurance Realty. We're the real deal. We're here. We're there. We're everywhere. We are in commercial real estate, residential real estate, Okanagan, Similkameen, Kootenays, East and West, Kamloops. We're everywhere. So like not only are we in all parts of real estate sector, but we're also geographically everywhere too. So we're the brokers to be. There is no doubt about it. Enjoy the show, you guys. It's a good one. Go Hawks. Yes, sir. Go Hawks.


00:04:19 Taylor Atkinson
Okay, Brett Wilson, thank you for coming on the show, man. We've been trying to get you on for a while now and you're busy, but yeah, I appreciate you making the time.


00:04:25 W. Brett Wilson
Well, your pitch based in Kelowna has a lot of appeal because that's been one of my core, if you will, business approaches to the Western Canadian environment I live in.


00:04:33 Matt Glen
live in. Yeah. So what brings you to Kelowna? Like, this is what I want to talk to you about. Like, do you have roots in Kelowna or like what's your history in Kelowna? Oh gosh.


00:04:40 W. Brett Wilson
A great friend 15 years ago said, Hey, have you any interest in investing in Kelowna? And I said, well, what do you got in mind? And she introduced me to a guy named Gary Tebbit and Gary was working with the Ides brothers and they needed a partner in several projects. So in the early 2005, six, seven, eight, that range. I invested in a number of projects with the partners. And then unfortunately, virtually everything went sideways to down. So I ended up buying my partners out at the bottom of the market, as it turned out. But you don't know that when you're in the market. And as it turned out, things literally bumped very much in the right direction. And we can talk about Kelowna, West Kelowna, the properties, whatever you want to talk about.


00:05:25 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. Well, maybe first off, when was the timeframe on that? Dude, I'm guessing like pre 2008 is when you first got in.


00:05:30 W. Brett Wilson
Yeah, it was six, seven, eight. The first project was, uh, what you would know as global fitness. Yeah. And, um, it's kind of funny cause I was pitched on buying the building while the restaurant was in it, but someone was going to buy the business of global fitness. We bought the building and then the guy who was buying global choked. So I ended up owning global and the building. Once the partners were gone, I had it all. And I can tell you the woman who's been running it since the day I bought it is Darcia Fenton. And just, I couldn't be prouder of my partner. I don't think I've ever argued with her about anything. Anything. We've been running this business for 15 years and we now have over 4 ,000 members. During COVID, it was a little tight. There was a few problems, you know, blah, blah, blah. But Darcia has just done a fabulous job. And I'm just plugging her because global fitness has been a real treat. Then along the way, a couple of years ago, we got thinking a bit about with Parkinson's rec coming. And what you folks are doing with Parkinson's rec is one of the most gifted, thoughtful. recreational centers in all of canada it's amazing and so we're adjacent global fitness and then ultimately a couple years ago three years ago now we bought a building called kbc colonna business center and that gave us a complete seven acre parcel adjacent to parkinson's rec and i know that the school the high school whoever it is the i can't remember if it's the catholic system but they've got the school now approved on the same site so the upgrade that's occurring next to us is extraordinary and our intention i mean and this is where i keep kind of making fun of the fact that I can't seem to plan it, but it's always in three to five years, we might tear the building down and build powers. Now, will I do that? No, there'll be someone knocking at the door. And obviously the condo market in Kelowna isn't what it was even three, four years ago, but will it come back? Absolutely. And so we're going to say the course. So in other words, Global Fitness is open for three to five years. There's a rolling,


00:07:27 Matt Glen
you know, rolling three to five years. Planning that project, have you worked with the city? to kind of like integrate the projects at all?


00:07:33 W. Brett Wilson
I've appeared in front of city council twice. And yeah, we've been very actively involved with Ryan Smith and Doug Crookshank. They've just been a delight. I mean, we don't always agree. Let's be crystal clear on that. What about this? What about that? They're two of the most professional. I mean, I've worked in a few other cities. They're a delight to work with. So yeah.


00:07:52 Matt Glen
This podcast can say the same thing about Ryan Smith. Yeah. He's an awesome guy. I've been on a few times and great dude. Yeah. When you drive by the Parkinson's reconnaissance, like it's a construction site. Good night construction site. That book is like built about that project. A few friends send me pictures because I'm obviously not there.


00:08:05 W. Brett Wilson
send me pictures because I'm obviously not there. I've had some health issues last year, which is why I haven't, I haven't been in Kelowna maybe more than once last year, but going forward. things look a whole lot better. So I will be back.


00:08:16 Taylor Atkinson
be back. Is the reason for you not wanting to like take on the development? Is that just something your business model just doesn't like a... So 1 .2 million square feet,


00:08:23 W. Brett Wilson
So 1 .2 million square feet, be about a billion dollars of investment. So it's just more than I can possibly touch. And again, I'm 68 and I'm looking to enjoy. Now, would I keep a piece of the business? Absolutely. But it's just too big a project and I'm not skilled at building towers. And I might have exaggerated the billion, but it's still way more than I want to spend or have the ability to spend. I just, I'm not a developer. I'm an owner. Don't get me wrong. We've modified and fixed. And when I talk about West Kelowna, we have been a developer over there, but for a shopping center.


00:08:56 Taylor Atkinson
Okay. Well, I will say like, yeah, my wife's going to be disappointed when you guys, if you do sell global and it gets redeveloped because she's, she's there like three times a week right now in the indoor tennis you guys provide. So she's become a global,


00:09:07 Matt Glen
global, obviously the best jam. I'm a long time over there. I haven't been the last couple of years has got the boom gym, but you know,


00:09:12 W. Brett Wilson
know, it's also one of the biggest gyms in Canada.


00:09:12 Matt Glen
of the biggest


00:09:12 W. Brett Wilson
gyms in Canada. Yeah. I didn't know that when I got into it, but you know, we're 75 ,000 square feet of gym and the pricing is reasonable and, and we're full. So we're very pleased with the way that's been running and the people have been an absolute delight in terms of the gangs don't fight when they're working out. Yeah. Yeah.


00:09:35 Taylor Atkinson
Well, I guess like geographically, like nationwide, where are you seeing opportunities for investments? Like I know BC is kind of like a taboo province right now, but is there still opportunity here for like buy and hold investment like you've been doing? That's a great question.


00:09:47 W. Brett Wilson
a great question. I'm still very frustrated by what the possibility is of how the fight will continue and unwind and be sorted in terms of UNDRIP and First Nation potential ownership of land and the sharing of the land. And it's still quite confusing and that's adverse. to all of bc now i'm invested in alberta saskatchewan bc that's my focus other than a hockey team in nashville but ignore that there's a few properties here and there in the states but the bulk of my interest is still western canada i'm helping develop a coal mine in alberta an underground steel making coal nobody can really object to that although there are and that's why i'm dealing with core blonde and some of my background noise but i'm developing another power plant we'll be announcing something in the next few weeks so pretty active in alberta but as far as real estate you know and i'll tell you right now the colonna assets i'm certainly not going to sell and i will and again i was talking about the possibility we're working with the ministry of transport or mott whatever it's called on the upgrades to the highway over in west colonna Highway 93 or 97? 97. 97. So 97, they want to come down into our property at that Prairie West site. And so we've been negotiating for the last six months with a little bit of the city and a whole lot with the Ministry of Transport. And we're getting very close to sorting that out. My intention is to put another couple of buildings on the Prairie West site in the next literally six to 12 months we'll get started. So we're going to make a pretty serious investment with more buildings on that site.


00:11:21 Taylor Atkinson
Okay. Well, that's exciting. That's like some confidence in our geographical area still. But going back to big picture,


00:11:27 W. Brett Wilson
to big picture, I think it's going to be hard for people to buy in BC without knowing what the next step is. And there's confusion. Will I continue to be good to my own properties? Yeah. You know, I repainted my condo. We're upgrading the Prairie West site and Global Fitness. We're buying equipment there all the time. And KBC, we're about to release half of one of the floors. And nobody would come in if it was only a two -year deal. So we will be making a five -year deal on those. But we've got new people, new place, new upgrades. So there's lots going on. I'm actually pretty happy with what we've got going on. I know what Jim just posted yesterday,


00:12:02 Matt Glen
I know what Jim just posted yesterday, or maybe it was today, about renovations that have happened recently and the changes over the years. So yeah, definitely.


00:12:11 Taylor Atkinson
And then I mean to like... Scale up because we're tight on time with you, obviously. Globally, economically, where's Canada right now? Like, you know, obviously it's quite volatile. We just had our prime minister release a speech overseas. You come from primarily the energy sector, right? So yeah, what's your take on everything right now?


00:12:29 W. Brett Wilson
Well, I believe in the West. So long term, I believe in the West. And I'm somewhat anti -separation. I haven't gone overly vocal about it. I am pro what I call. collaboration we'll get to the world and economy in a minute so i'm anti -alberta separating but i'm pro alberta saskatchewan manitoba bc oh and the yukon and the northwest territories collaborating let's work together we almost hardly need ontario and quebec and the noise in ottawa if we can collaborate Not just, again, I emphasize the benefit of collaboration. And by the way, I'm one of the largest investors, the largest non -indigenous investor in a business in the Yukon called Northern Vision. Local First Nations own 55 % of the company. I own 13 % or 14%. This is public, it's searchable. But my real point is it's a delight to work in a province where all of the First Nations have completed. all of their paperwork. Everyone knows what their rights are, their payments are. They know what their leases are. Everything is organized. It's done. There isn't another province in Canada that's nearly as organized as the Yukon. No one knows that. No one seems to talk about it, but I will share proudly our Yukon First Nations collaborate. And that goes back to, and I'll be on stage with the National Coalition of Chiefs here in another month. And one of my pushbacks is the First Nations don't. collaborate. I'll go back to the noise of that thing called coastal First Nations, which is not First Nations. It's an environmental group out of the US that bribes our local First Nations. So that's me ranting. But going back to your bigger picture question, globally, we need to be more active as a country with our natural resources. What Kearney has promised is great. What Kearney and team have delivered is slope. So, you know, if we get the memo, you properly dialed, we fixed the power business in Alberta. He canceled what Yibo had called the clean energy regulations. He canceled those because he was punishing the ability of Albertans and the rest of Canada to build more power plants. He was punishing them. Well, we need power. Like, walk me through why we would be willing to be short of power on any given day. And that's where we were headed under clean energy regulations, which, again, we'll rant for a moment. But Gibault resigned when the MOU was announced because the MOU canceled all the noise he'd created, which was one of the best things our country has seen. But now we need a pipeline. Of course, EB says no pipeline. Well, maybe, but any changes is mine several times. We work collaboratively with the First Nations, and I talked to a number of them. Everyone's on side. They want a fair and equitable deal, and there's nothing wrong with asking for that. But to have groups like First Nations, the coastal First Nations, which are not a First Nation. They're an NGO. They're an environmental group. They are not a First Nation. And they're funded by the Americans. They're working to screw our Canadian energy industry. And quite frankly, our First Nations, if punished by this foreign group called coastal First Nations. That's me ranting. But globally, we need to up our energy. Electricity. We want to ship electricity to the States. We can through, in particular, Quebec and its hydro. Hydro comes from Newfoundland. Ignore all that. But we can do more with energy, natural resources, uranium, critical minerals. There's so many things we can do. But we're one of the slowest countries in the world for getting approval to actually produce and distribute. And that's the mess we're in. And I'm hopeful. I mean, Kearney has promised. Can Kearney deliver? That'll be the story. If we resolve,


00:16:07 Taylor Atkinson
we resolve, like not resolve because that's like a big ask, but if we kind of like make some movement forward, do you feel that's going to then create some relief on, you know, housing affordability as well as like opportunity and capital to be reinvested back into our economy? Like obviously you're a huge investor in the West, but we do hear that like investors are kind of nervous to continue to invest in projects because the volatility of it, right?


00:16:32 W. Brett Wilson
Well, again, go back to that big picture confusion in BC, you know, who owns the land? And again, one or two or three or four or five First Nations have now said, we sort of own it. We do own it. We think we own it. And it's all because of UNDRIP and the noise and the nuisance. That's got to get solved. Then we have to be able to work with the individual First Nations, collectively, collaboratively, individually, doesn't matter, as we build things. I don't think any First Nation believes that life is free forever. And I would just sit here and we'll collect cash. That's not the case. And again, as a nation, we don't do a very good job employing our, call it the bottom decile of our human resources in terms of income and whatnot. We're terrible at that as a country, but the world is, and we're still probably better off. But that goes back to a great question. What's next for BC? We got to get through this noise about what coastal First Nations is saying, what the individual First Nations are saying, what EB is saying. We got to be able to get a... tmx pipeline expanded i'm certain that's going to happen because i know those conversations are underway and we do need a private or a call it a company not government -owned to develop and therefore fund the new pipeline in the north and there's no question that the indigenous people will be participating in the economics of those pipelines partly to build them, partly to own royalties, partly to supervise them. All that stuff is coming. So I'm an optimist, but the next three to five years, to be blunt, use that range of numbers, until the confusion created by EB on First Nation land ownership is solved, BC struggles.


00:18:08 Taylor Atkinson
It's that simple. Yeah. Is there a particular asset class that you feel is going to be more beneficial in the next three to five years, specifically in the West? And talking real estate specific.


00:18:19 W. Brett Wilson
Yeah, housing is harder to fund in some places, but you know, as I talk about, I still own some shopping center. I've still own several shopping centers in Kelowna and we're going to continue to grow those. Why? Because people need what's ever in the shopping center. I mean, food, recreation, whatever. So that's still going to happen. I can tell that in our conversations with investors about building towers in Kelowna. There's an element of hesitation that didn't exist, say, five years ago. And it's going to take three to five years or more to get a new project permitted,


00:18:23 Taylor Atkinson
know, as I


00:18:49 W. Brett Wilson
to five years or more to get a new project permitted, planned, funded, all that stuff. So it's going to be a while. I'm a bit apprehensive about, call it residential real estate in British Columbia in particular.


00:19:01 Matt Glen
Columbia in particular. You're West Colonna Prairie West. You said you're building a couple more buildings. Are they residential or are you talking about commercial, strictly commercial, like not mixed? It's just...


00:19:10 W. Brett Wilson
What's happening is the Ministry of Transport wants to either go over our property or under the highway or down with what are called ramps. So we don't quite have that sorted out. Once we know what the Ministry of Transport wants to do, then we will immediately announce or cut a deal with someone. We've got three or four parties at the table right now in terms of what could we build for them. So we're working on that right now.


00:19:37 Matt Glen
working on that right now. That's imminent. In your experience, it sounds like that there's put off the gas of building residential. Like right now, we have a glut. There's no doubt about it. All the purpose built rentals and condo buildings that are kind of sell. But do you think that it's possible in three to five years, like you say, that we're going to have a shortage from nobody building anything?


00:19:51 W. Brett Wilson
Well, I wouldn't doubt that we will misguide. Future, absolutely. And that's why things get, I mean, I hate the roller coaster that you just described. It gets frustrating because it'd be great if it was just a steady, you know, 2 % up, 3 % up, whatever the numbers are. But the roller coaster that we're enduring right now, and that's because of the politics. I mean, I'm really unhappy with what the liberals have done to Canada, but of course, it's kind of amusing. There isn't a mention of anything that Trudeau ever did to the positive brought out by the liberals. Why? Because there isn't anything. And so there's fuck. Carney has stepped in and I have his phone. So we text once in a while, very careful not to waste his time. We had met over at the London Olympics in 2012 and I was on stage with him. And again, so it was just a first cut long before politics. I happen to admire and respect the guy. I just don't always agree with where the liberal policies take us. But let me just rant for a moment. I absolutely love what Trump is trying to do. Do I agree with how he's doing it? No, but I don't have any say in that. But the idea of trying to reduce the wars in Ukraine and Hamas, the idea that he wants to protect his border, you know, you stop and think about some of that. And even this idea of Greenland, I'm one of the few people who said, you know what, I hope they end up doing a deal. I don't want a violent military -based takeover, but it could be an economic deal, which is what he's hinting at, implying. And even I saw the premier or prime minister or whatever he is of Greenland on TV the other night saying, no, we don't have a deal. But he implied when he finished, we don't have a deal. I hope we do. He's keen to have these conversations. He's not afraid of them. This guy's bright. And again, Greenland has no budget, no economics. I mean, anything that comes to them is obviously, I don't know who sends it to them or what they do, but 55 ,000 people, you know, to be blunt, I think the idea of developing Greenland is thoughtful and I don't want Russia and China doing it. So if we don't want them doing it, you better support what Trump's trying to do. And again, I don't agree with how Trump acts and the cards he plays. They drive me nuts. But his end game is to make the United States a better place. We will benefit.


00:22:02 Taylor Atkinson
To circle back to Kelowna, I guess, kind of two part question. Also, I love the take on that. I do. I'm not trying to get away from it. Okay. What are you most excited about for Kelowna in terms of an investment? Like what would make you invest more here? And second part of question of that is what makes you most excited about Kelowna on the personal side of things? Like, yeah, what do you enjoy about it when you come here?


00:22:21 W. Brett Wilson
Well, what drives me nuts is my health has limited some of my travel, but I have some wonderful friends who reside there half the year, three quarters of the year, all the year. So there's lots for me to do when I go there. So I'm looking forward to getting back. I'm an optimist. As I shared, my early optimism is over what it would take to develop commercial property. Right place, right time, right reason. I mean, as I shared, we're going to upgrade the Kelowna Business Center a little bit, and I'm looking to expand in a dramatic way the building over at Prairie West. So I'm an optimist on those things. Would I put other money into other things with a long -term vision? Yeah. I mean, I think I shared with you, I own 70 or 80, 60 or 70 acres, whatever it is, on Mission Creek, right on Gorton Road in Mission Creek, and it's ALR land, agricultural land. And when I bought it, we had this delusional belief that in 10 years, we'd go and apply to get it out into, you know, six story buildings along Gordon, a organic farm in behind. The city has actually asked us to give them back some of the land so that they can expand the river, the nodules as they did with the first nations looking to the north on the right hand side. They want my side. Yes. There's lots to do there, but agricultural lands in a complete state of uselessness. So,


00:23:40 Taylor Atkinson
yeah, I mean, that's got to me because I did see, you know, kind of your resume there of properties, which is amazing. But yeah, why 70 acres of ALR? Like, is there a future there? Would you just want to offload it at this point? Or is it just a beautiful piece of land that you want to keep? Well, we rented to a horse farmer and he keeps the barn in great condition.


00:23:57 W. Brett Wilson
farmer and he keeps the barn in great condition. There's two or three houses there. You know, during the fires like several years ago, we had more than 200 horses on that ranch. Oh, really? 200, because we were there to save them, protect them, keep them okay. I mean, I bought it at the time with the delusional belief. I mean, LR land, 100 ,000 an acre right now, give or take. Across the street, 2 million an acre. So is there some upside to owning the land? Only if we can get moving forward with development of the LR. And if we want to keep farmland forever inside the perimeter of the city of Kelowna, then... It might be my great -great -grandson or doll who develops this property. I mean, it's a little confusing. Yet, the optimum use of the property is for the benefit of Kelowna. And farmland belongs to me. I grew up in Saskatchewan. No shortage of farmland. And even, I mean, I own land in and around. We sold a few pieces in and around Kelowna. The land to the north and the south is just gorgeous. It's beautiful. It's great. And again, farmland. agricultural land. And as you know, some people decided to grow grapes and my buddy, Anthony von Mandel kind of planted a few grapes and it's turned into something pretty spectacular. So great.


00:25:18 Taylor Atkinson
Well, maybe you can expand on ALR a little bit for us. So my understanding is pretty limited, but essentially we're mandated to have a certain portion of ALR because we need to provide. farmland to provide food right but like at this stage in our municipality like is it really necessary to have 70 acres of alr right there when housing is such an issue like i think they're previous to this you could swap land right with the government i think you still can't swap it but it has to be like better and three times we had a couple of discussions but the impression i got was that i had to swap five times as much land five times but i was unloading and then just that's not fair


00:25:46 Matt Glen
swap it but it has to be like better and three times we


00:25:49 W. Brett Wilson
had a couple of discussions but the impression i got was that i had to swap five times as much land five times but i was unloading and then just that's not fair The city needs the land. It just makes sense. So going back to the big picture, agricultural land, I think is something like three to 5 % of the overall province of British Columbia. I was sitting at a lunch with some fairly high end people, including Jimmy Patterson at Anthony by Mandel's house with Prince Edward. And we were talking a bit about ALR land. And there was a guy at the table who obviously is pretty senior with the province. And he said, I want to see ALR at 30%. We've got to expand it so it's never developed. And that was someone who was fairly, again, I can't remember his name. I could look it up. Doesn't matter. But he was quite senior within the government wanting to expand the ALR footprint. And all due respect, think thoughtfully about it. I mean, why don't we optimize the use of our land? You know, you can't walk onto a First Nation and say, your land's ALR. You can't develop it. In fact, I'm learning and hearing just the opposite that, you know, First Nations could go onto ALR land and develop as they choose, which adds confusion to planning. And again, so I'm sitting on 70 acres of very developable land. My utopia would be to work with High Street, Mr. Butler, and build six -story towers, eight -story towers, the full length of Gordon, for the benefit of who? The people of Kelowna. And would it be economic? I'm sure it would be. And in behind, we know that the river goes up and down. And again, they want to move it, swing it, move it around. And we need some land that could be an organic farm in behind. All of that makes complete economic and community sense. It's not just money. It's about the community. We can't do it because it's ALR. So time will tell. I'm a bit skeptical about the short term, but I'm quite an optimist long term because the land, it's not good farmland in any way, shape or form. Although they've told me I can divide it into 10 acre sites and sell it off as individual horse farms. Well, yeah, it's very good land. Anyway, so let's just drive on it. Yeah.


00:27:54 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. And yeah, Scott Butler, I actually had coffee with him last week. So he is scheduled to come on the show this spring. So maybe you guys can collaborate on something.


00:28:02 Matt Glen
All right, but I know we're running into your time limit here. Anything that you want to bring up or anything that we should touch before you go? No, I'm happy to chat with you guys again in a year and see what's happened in the ALR,


00:28:09 W. Brett Wilson
again in a year and see what's happened in the ALR, Ministry of Transport. The recreational hunter. See if any of our land, we have title to it anymore by then.


00:28:19 Matt Glen
by then.


00:28:19 W. Brett Wilson
I mean, that's probably one of the greatest issues that needs to be resolved. And I think people are a little apprehensive about challenging the First Nations over how this is all unfolding. And it's in no small part because of Ebi. And I am working in the background. Erin Gunn, one of my best friends, The Noise, Carolyn Elliott, one of the people running. I'm supporting her. And Donna Brody and I have spoken several times. So I'm just, am I a fan? and a believer in the economics of British Columbia. Absolutely. But we got to get that problem. I mean, who would invest when you don't know if the land's yours or not? Why would you invest? Yeah, nobody. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's in our mutual interest,


00:28:57 Matt Glen
interest, get this solved. The bigger projects get less and less favorable. Like it's, yeah, it's crazy. Totally. In the means, Global Fitness is always looking for more members.


00:29:05 W. Brett Wilson
is always looking for more members. Thank you.


00:29:07 Taylor Atkinson
Hey, yeah. My wife would comment. She wants another tennis ball machine in there, but yeah. Thank you so much for coming on and thank you for contributing to Kelowna. Like, yeah, we really appreciate it. Appreciate you guys.


00:29:17 W. Brett Wilson
you guys. Your patience has been a treat. It's been worth it, Brett. Thank you very much. Thanks guys. Thanks.