119: Kelowna's Short-Term Rental Reckoning with Keys to Kelowna's Deana Steele

00:00:00 Taylor Atkinson
All right, welcome back to the Kelowna Real Estate Podcast. I'm your mortgage broker host, Taylor Atkinson.


00:00:04 Matt Glen
And I'm your real estate agent host, Matt Glen. What's happening today, Taylor?


00:00:07 Taylor Atkinson
We got to celebrate your birthday this week.


00:00:10 Matt Glen
Yeah, appreciate that, dude. Thank you very much. That was honestly unexpected.


00:00:16 Taylor Atkinson
You know what was unexpected? You getting a four -minute penalty at the end of the game. But hey, we still came through. So yeah, it was a fun game and a fun birthday.


00:00:27 Matt Glen
That's because we have the best team in division eight. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What else is going on? Other than my birthday, not much. I know you're going to talk about mortgage rates are going up, right? Fixed rates because of what's happening in Iran.


00:00:42 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, essentially. I mean, unless you've been living under a rock or in Iran has caused like some global economic instability. And with that, the bond market's been having a lot of upward pressure. When that happens, fixed rates usually follow. So over the last, I'd say, 10 to 15 days, like every other day, we're getting emails from lenders saying rates are going up tonight, rates are going up tonight, and they keep doing it. High level, we've seen about a half a percent rate increase on the fixed rate side, you know, for most lenders. So it's been busy to make sure we like get in our rate holds. So we have a ceiling for clients that are out shopping right now. And then on the variable rate side, we haven't obviously seen any movement, you know, eight decisions happen a year with Bank of Canada. And we are having Brennan Ogmanson back on BCREH economist at the next rate announcement. So he'll kind of talk about more where rates are heading, but yeah. What's your theory? What's going on?


00:01:36 Matt Glen
Well, like, so obviously the straighter Hormuz oil prices are just going crazy. right like they're going higher and higher and expected to go even higher so canada obviously like a resource producer like the price of oil usually does give a boom to alberta saskatchewan you know and also we had the fertilizer situation going on from um qatar which is also being restricted which is going to help saskatchewan i just feel like I know inflation is going to go up as you were just saying with the interest rates and stuff like that. So like, I think overall inflation will go up, but like, are we also going to see a bit of a money injection, not even a bit, a huge money injection coming into Canada offset? What do you think about that?


00:02:17 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, I think generally that's what happens, right? Like historically when wars happen globally, it kind of boosts economy, right? Like that's how we got out of. past depressions with this happening for sure i agree like if we're restricted on oil that's going to likely you know boost that sector of the economy and i think most people just drive by gas stations and be like what is going on like the cost of gas is insane right now not really correlating what's going on and then also not tying in but like fixed rates are on the move like pretty rapidly right like everyone just kind of thinks about the variable rate so yeah i agree with you i don't know like if the benefit in terms of that growth in the economy is going to offset the negative hurt in our economy or if it's more going to be specific to like you said alberta like maybe alberta comes out of this and six months really strong and the rest of us kind of hurt i guess there's another question is how long does this last like next time we record a podcast episode is this long gone history or is this going on for me i hope so like yeah it's not a great situation obviously that's the difficult part right like when you're talking to clients six months ago about rates and products it's like


00:03:06 Matt Glen
guess there's another question is how long does this last like next time we record a podcast episode is this long gone history or is this going on for me i hope so like


00:03:14 Taylor Atkinson
yeah it's not a great situation obviously that's the difficult part right like when you're talking to clients six months ago about rates and products it's like Hey, as of today, like no one has a crystal ball, but this is kind of where we're at. Like a 4 % rate ish is kind of happy medium for our economy and what people can afford, you know, unless there's some COVID Greenland invasion, like something catastrophic. Yeah. You can't predict that something like this is going to happen. That's the tough part, right? Like you make plans and then there's a ton of volatility. And the only thing you can do is kind of pivot and adjust. and hope that it gets resolved.


00:03:50 Matt Glen
Although, like, making plans like that, like, it's such short term, right? It just seems to be, like, all these things that you just brought up are, like, just, like, two -day news cycle things and then you just forget about them, right? Like, I think this, like, Iran is a bit different. It just seems like it's going to linger. But, like, it's just hard to, like, you make your mortgage plan based on, like, that day's news when the news is just insane every single day. It's hard to plan for it. Like, you can't.


00:04:12 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, that's the tough part. Like, obviously... you know good brokers and banks have to try and secure the best rates for clients like that's a huge part of the job but the other part is just like you know getting somebody in a home that they want or buying a property that they want that's going to be something they can't afford and trying to mitigate like any volatility of those rates up and down but at the end of the day like housing is a necessity like someone's going to own a house for 30 40 50 years It will balance out. Like, you know, you try and take the emotion out of it. Obviously you try and secure the best product you can. And then you, you know, when your renewal comes up, like if it's bad timing, it's bad timing. Like you're going to win on the next one. I don't know.


00:04:51 Matt Glen
Yeah. You just have to look at it with longer horizons. I think though in the short horizon, I'd feel like Kelowna specifically, because we have so many Albertans and Saskatchewan people that live here, I think that we could see, ain't not a boom, but like a little bit of a spike. So great segue.


00:05:07 Taylor Atkinson
because we spoke about this a lot on the show today. We brought back for the third time, I think, Deana Steele from Keys to Kelowna, also new owner, operator, co -founder of DeVille Coffee Shop on Lakeshore, which is an awesome spot. So we spoke about short -term rental, local Kelowna economy, and entrepreneurial coffee shop. And to me, Deana's one of those people in Kelowna that makes Kelowna. You really want that entrepreneurial spirit. She built an incredible business. for short -term rental, Airbnb, midterm rental, like providing that kind of luxury. Adapted when things went south.


00:05:41 Matt Glen
things went south.


00:05:42 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, adapted, pivoted, and then started something new. Like that's what Kelowna is built on, are people that are just like constantly making Kelowna better. But that was part of the conversation today. It was like, okay, for your small business, both businesses to be successful. What really has to happen? Like our local economy has to get going. We need tourism. We need not just tourism, but we need people that live here to have disposable income and go and spend it. So you're right. Like I think maybe some of this oil price surge will maybe overflow into Kelowna's economy. Maybe we get those Albertans back a little bit and traveling and yeah, so it could be tied to that for sure. Yeah. I kind of think it might,


00:06:23 Matt Glen
might, but yeah, today's episode was awesome. Talking to Deana is always. Always a treat. She's a great guest. She makes our job very easy.


00:06:31 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Not to like spoil it or anything, but we are talking about is the province going to accept the city's request to bring back short -term rental this spring, 2026, instead of in the fall and what specific buildings are zoned for it and how that all plays out. So obviously. Very important show. Tune into it. She also has some wicked Instagram stuff coming out and newsletters. She's got her finger on the pulse, so you want to be connected to her if you are interested in the short -term rental industry at all or you like coffee.


00:07:03 Matt Glen
Yeah. All right, guys. Enjoy the show. And this show, like every show, is sponsored by Century 21 Assurance Realty. Best brokerage in the Okanagan in the interior. We are... Everywhere. Geographically, we're all throughout the interior and we are in property management, sales. Yeah. So if you're a buyer or a seller looking for a agent or if you're an agent looking for a brokerage, Century 21 is the place to start.


00:07:26 Taylor Atkinson
Congratulations. Century 21 just had their award ceremony. You got another Centurion. So bravo, man. Good job. That's huge. All right. Enjoy the show, guys.


00:07:39 Taylor Atkinson
Okay. Welcome back to the show. Deana Steele from Keys to Kelowna, third time returning guest. Thanks for coming.


00:07:44 Matt Glen
for coming.


00:07:45 Deana Steele
It's good to be back.


00:07:46 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. I've been waiting for this conversation for a long time,


00:07:47 Deana Steele
I've been waiting for this conversation for a long time, but it seems like every time you turn around, it's like, oh, just wait a little bit longer. Wait a little bit longer. Yeah. Yeah.


00:07:56 Taylor Atkinson
It feels literally like forever ago. provincial legislation changed air maybe kind of got knocked out and then we were like hopeful for so long like oh maybe you'll get changed back and it just goes on and on and on and so anyways we're recording this march 9th is some like glimmer of hope that maybe it comes back early, but you're here to say likely not. It's another carrot they're dangling,


00:08:19 Deana Steele
It's another carrot they're dangling, right? The one thing I think we were all hanging on to before was the Property Rights BC, that class action lawsuit and all those steps. Like there were so many things that were kind of keeping us in limbo. And now I feel like here we are again, all feeding into this maybe May 1st. Oh, we're having these conversations. My take, is Kelowna that special for the province to be like, oh, yeah, we're just going to change everything. We're going to change the whole legislative calendar and we're going to just do it all for you. We've already preplanned this. It was already written in stone here. November 1 was when we're going to update the act. But you want us to do it earlier. And the language that they're using, the housing minister is saying, like, you still have an opportunity to increase your short -term rental inventory by offering principal residences. They said the same thing to Vancouver. You have World Cup coming. Well, move out of your house and invite other people to stay in your home or stay in your home with you. So when they say that, when they think that there is still a solution for you to exercise, to bring in this tourism traffic, I feel like why would they? Do all of that for a small window of time, basically.


00:09:34 Matt Glen
Are we only talking about May 1st?


00:09:38 Deana Steele
Yeah, we're only talking about May 1st is because that's when everyone thinks that our summer season needs to kick off.


00:09:43 Taylor Atkinson
So it doesn't come down from the province of being like, hey, like maybe May 4th, it's like us coming up with this fictitious.


00:09:49 Deana Steele
Yes. Yeah, it's arbitrary.


00:09:50 Matt Glen
Legislature, right? Yeah. Earlier, like apply for the exemption, but instead of winning for November. Yeah.


00:09:57 Deana Steele
Everyone thinks that it's happening.


00:09:59 Taylor Atkinson
So unbiasedly, if I was in Vancouver and we didn't get that early exemption, I would also be pissed off. Well, yeah, and to the province, right? To be like, okay, how are you exempting like one municipality and not us? Like you're playing to solitism. So it's probably has to fly for it.


00:10:13 Matt Glen
has to fly for it. You have to have the vacancy, right? Which Columbia does well. Well,


00:10:18 Taylor Atkinson
changing the date is what I'm saying. Like this is the problem with this legislation in the first place. Like instead of doing these like random picking all this. yo -yo that's going on that no one can keep up. Like just keep a blanket statement. This is what we're doing. People can plan that way.


00:10:32 Matt Glen
Yes.


00:10:33 Taylor Atkinson
Because now, like you said, people are hanging on to be like, well, maybe I can rent my place out this summer. Are they keeping it vacant? Are they losing money? And then another key to this is the practicality.


00:10:39 Matt Glen
key to this is the practicality. Like half these places are, I mean, way more than half. All are either tenanted, right? Well,


00:10:47 Deana Steele
there's not a lot that are vacant. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I had conversations with owners who took possession 14 months ago at like buildings like Caban. vacant, trying to figure out what they want to do. Well, I don't know. They don't tell me what they're doing, and I say out of that. I stay out of that. A lot of people don't actually realize that short term rentals do not exempt you for spec tax. So a lot of people think about that. Six months or something you have to.


00:11:13 Taylor Atkinson
months or something you have to.


00:11:15 Deana Steele
Yeah, exactly. What we should say is like highlight March 31st is the deadline for municipalities to apply to opt out with the province. So that date needs to pass, I think, before the province will say, OK, how many municipalities do we need to discuss here? But also like. Okay, we lose one summer in the grand scheme of things and cities. Like one summer, I know it hurts us as homeowners or small business operators, but in the grand scheme of things, like losing one more summer of having low tourism. I wouldn't say spending because we had a really good volume of visitors last year, but losing one summer in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's a really big deal in the province's eyes. In maybe our eyes it is because we have tiny little pockets. but yeah shrinking oh man so what do you think the rationales between having an end of march deadline to submit and then like well just timing i guess for all the red tape paperwork i don't know how it works in the province why things need to move so slowly because we've seen how fast they moved it in


00:12:04 Matt Glen
what do you think the rationales between having an end of march deadline to submit and then like well


00:12:11 Deana Steele
just timing i guess for all the red tape paperwork i don't know how it works in the province why things need to move so slowly because we've seen how fast they moved it in But to undo the damage, I think it's just timing and planning. And again, City of Kona, kudos to NOLA Kilmartin for making this happen. I've never seen a city so proactive in getting all their ducks in a row before anything happens. Maybe that'll change things in their eyes. Like if we are the only municipality, maybe they're like, okay, you guys are organized. You can launch in two months after this March 31st deadline. You can launch in two months. Doubt that it's going to happen because to your point, other municipalities like we asked, why don't we get it? I couldn't imagine that.


00:12:57 Taylor Atkinson
So can you just give us the high -level overview of right now? So even if we get or don't get the exemption, but what's going to happen to the properties? Is it just the existing previously zoned ones? Is it everything's back on? Does it have to be primary residence, basement suites? What's going to be allowable when we get the exemption?


00:13:11 Deana Steele
we get the exemption? For the city of Kelowna, they've just approved last Monday on March 2nd, 16 parcels or addresses. That's not just condo buildings. There's three multifamily duplex complexes, basically. that were permitted in McKinley, so that's great. So those 16 addresses that historically were allowed to offer short -term rentals are now going to receive a STR subzone to allow full -time short -term rentals again once the province gives the green light to the city. Correct. Yeah. So their principal use or primary use could be short -term rentals. Yeah. Which means all of these addresses. So there's 2 ,196 individual units of those 16 parcels that could be back online, which is crazy because right now we have approximately 450 to 500 short -term rentals licensed currently. Imagine half of those addresses decide to apply and launch a short -term rentals. That's going to triple our inventory basically overnight. That's really painful. It's bittersweet that we have the opportunity, but it's going to hurt all of us because all of a sudden there's just not a lot of tourist traffic right now. It's going to drive the rates down. We can go into that a little bit later. So 16 parcels. But interestingly enough, there was 22 addresses. So only 16 have applied at this point. So one of the addresses, I don't want to like call any particular. address out. But I did speak with them and their investors are just risk averse. They don't want to go back to short term rentals. They've fully converted to long term, even though when they originally applied for their permit, they wanted to do full time long term. They got the tax credit. They gave the tax credit back or revoked it basically so they could go short term, did short term for a few years, lost it. And now they're just not interested. And that signals to me like a group of pretty savvy real estate investors are saying we're not interested. It's too volatile, which it is. Tourism is crazy. Every year. Oh, it's painful.


00:15:19 Matt Glen
What happened?


00:15:23 Deana Steele
It could, absolutely. Government can change as well, right? Like municipal or provincial. So there is no guarantee that we'll be able to keep these full -time short -term rentals. Sure, they might be zoned, but things could change. So it is risky, for sure. It's crazy to me if they're not asking.


00:15:39 Taylor Atkinson
It's crazy to me if they're not asking. Like, it would be nice to have the option, whether they elect to use it or not.


00:15:43 Matt Glen
to use it or not. I'm just listening to the unit talk. I wonder if they got those places into CMHC financing where they just can't. they're not stratified or like just yeah yeah i don't know yeah yeah i'm not sure and because the city made it so easy to rezone like the easiest probably rezoning application out there zero dollars it was literally it took me five minutes i filled one of them out for the strata property that i


00:15:56 Deana Steele
i don't know yeah yeah i'm not sure and because the city made it so easy to rezone like the easiest probably rezoning application out there zero dollars it was literally it took me five minutes i filled one of them out for the strata property that i Five minutes, zero dollars, approved instantly. If anyone wants to come back, they're going to have to go through the whole rezoning application process. So I made that phone call and I said, like, at least put your name. You don't have to use it. Nope, not interested. Oh, interesting. So anyway, six addresses out there. Didn't want to partake. Well, that one's privately owned. I mean, too much away. You could probably figure it out. Which building I'm talking to, we'll talk about it.


00:16:41 Taylor Atkinson
but it does come is it now though like strata's do they have the ability to vote it in or out like if there's strata council well okay so basically they wanted the strata executive to confirm if it was in their bylaws


00:16:48 Deana Steele
okay so basically they wanted the strata executive to confirm if it was in their bylaws allowing short -term rentals. So city staff do want a copy of those council bylaws. But in order to change that, you need a three -quarter vote. So it's not like council could have said, no, we don't want in. So those addresses, and I'm trying to think of, was One Water ever one of those addresses that maybe was excluded? Because they did change their bylaws from minimum 30 -day rentals to minimum 90. So perhaps those two buildings were two of the six because short term rentals are defined under 90 days. So perhaps that was one of them. But yeah, you have to have a three quarter vote to change your strata. I couldn't just opt out like there would be an uprising if Strata Council said, no, we're not going to apply for this. Yeah.


00:17:39 Taylor Atkinson
OK, so let's say like 800 units come back online, which. would be great i mean i know you don't have a crystal ball but yeah what does that do for nightly rates like is the domestic international market are we just kind of like forgotten about now are people like oh you can't airbnb so like no point going to colonna unless you're looking for a hotel like how do we get people back oh yeah that's a


00:17:59 Deana Steele
yeah that's a Tourism Kelowna question for sure. And Airbnb has been really good. Like their advocacy committee has been out here really trying to help. I've seen paid ads now and maybe it's my echo chamber that I'm in, but I've been seeing it on. random websites. But no, I think we have a PR problem, not just that fact that Kelowna is expensive to stay in because we don't have Airbnbs and hotels are making a killing. I think in 2023, when we lost all of our grapes, I remember reading from guests like, oh, how are the wineries? They did just fine. But that media push out to our major markets, Alberta and Vancouver, that hurt. Then the fires. We've had two amazing summers, but no one was here to enjoy them. Like,


00:18:43 Matt Glen
honestly, not to be like, I was totally pessimistic, but we have had zero snow this morning.


00:18:48 Deana Steele
Yeah.


00:18:48 Matt Glen
In that car season, we'll look like this year.


00:18:49 Deana Steele
Well, exactly. And that might hit the news too, right? What's really hurting me is in the media right now is like rents dropping. So many vacant units. Canadians aren't negotiators, so they are now. I have never had to do so much back and forth. Like trying to get a deal or an agreement signed is hope. Hard. It's so hard because everyone's it's not like they're looking around. It's just they know that they could probably get a better price. So all I do every day. Oh, my God. I'm like, what would you like to pay? What do you think is fair for this luxury for real? I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah.


00:19:32 Taylor Atkinson
So I mean, hopefully I don't think any of this is going to change the market drastically, but let's say we get six, seven hundred units back on for Airbnb. Likely that will chew up a tiny bit of vacancy, put a little bit of pressure on rents, at least like a floor, you know? Cause yeah, I agree. Like rents are just slowly kind of, there's some downward pressure there. So it'd be nice to have that balance.


00:19:56 Taylor Atkinson
Holy moly. And there's also a ton of condos that aren't listed as like vacant, but they're complete and they haven't sold. Yeah. Right. Like you have developers that have like. You know, we just had Scott on like 50 units sitting there. Well, that's not classified as vacant because they're not out there yet. They're not in the market. Well,


00:20:12 Deana Steele
the condos aren't counted. Apartments are counted. I'm in all these buildings. The parkades are empty. You stand and you look through the windows. They're vacant. No furniture. Like I'm smelling sewer gas coming out of out of sinks because I'm like, my neighbor's been vacant for 14 months. It's painful. So, I mean, if we have 700 come online, I think it'll drive the nightly race down, which is good for you. tourists, not necessarily for these really expensive condos, but the rest of them I think will still be stuck without a renter long -term or short -term because these empty vacant units right now, what are they going to do? Spend $40 ,000 on furniture packages? Because that's what it costs now to do something good. If you want to throw your IKEA stuff in there, well, your Strata Council is probably going to nail you with a ton of noise complaints because you have low -quality caliber guests that are willing to book that. I see some really cruddy rentals listed. right now. And I'm like, everyone's just waiting in limbo to put that thing on the short term rental market, which is only going to make it harder for guests to find quality places to stay, which worries me, too. I had one guest actually leave. She continued to pay for her eight week stay. She left after three. She was so uncomfortable in one of these brand new luxury buildings because of the poor quality tenants. Like you walk up and it's like a. Yeah. Like long term residents. You walk up and there's like a smoke pit. People smoking out front. Incredibly oversized dogs for these tiny little condos rolling through the hallways. Actually, that was what was her like final linchpin was to these cane corsos. No offense to cane corsos, but that's what they were.


00:21:59 Taylor Atkinson
Cane corsos are listening to this podcast? Sorry.


00:22:01 Deana Steele
It's not your fault. Lunged at her and her dog in the elevator. And then she walks outside and there's just people out there just smoking and loitering. It's been really difficult offering luxury stays. When I'm competing with people who are just so desperate to get a tenant in. And the amount of turnover has been incredible, too, because some of these guests that I'm like, oh, my God, I'll see as I'm walking down the hall. I'm like, oh, no, my guest has to walk past this. Two months later, I'll walk by. I'm like, there's a cleaner in there hauling all their crap out. So the turnover has been really high. And that's another thing, too, for long term rentals is people are finding great deals out there. So I find landlords are offering their tenants reduced rent to keep them or the tenants are trying to break the lease early because they found a better deal, which is great for people.


00:22:50 Taylor Atkinson
How long does it take to get a property up and running in terms of like, let's just say we're not going to hit. May. So this comes through in the fall. Likely people are going to take a few months to actually get Airbnb occupancy because not a lot of people come here in the winter. So like, is it going to be the full season? Like all of next year is kind of a throwaway to to get like your reviews back and like sort out administration, like just like get everything balanced out and like have the market kind of like self -regulate.


00:23:19 Deana Steele
I was kind of hoping some of it would have self -regulated itself already, meaning that the people who were desperate to get back into the short -term rental space just didn't make it that far and either sold or put a long -term tenant in. But again, I'm having conversations with people who haven't done anything with their unit in 14 months. It's just sitting there empty while they make a decision.


00:23:42 Matt Glen
Makes sense because you get a tenant in there and then like with the BC laws.


00:23:47 Deana Steele
Yeah. And people are really scared of that. And I'm like, well, if you vet properly, the problem is as the months go on, the emotions get higher and they're like, I don't care. Just put somebody in there. Like I got a phone call the other day from a client being like, just get me a rental. And I was like, OK, well, these are the offers that I've been getting. They're like half price of what you want. No, absolutely not. No, I don't want that. We'll wait. How many can wait? And I try to work with people who aren't in a financial pinch because I don't want them to get into a situation with a bad tenant or a bad guest by lowering their, you know, rates and expectations. But that's what's happening already in these properties. Do you think it's going to spike at some point?


00:24:30 Taylor Atkinson
you think it's going to spike at some point? Like, I'm just thinking supply and demand, developers or not. starting any new projects we're finishing off a bunch obviously there's a ton of supply rents going down but like at some stage the pendulum's got a swing like when it does can the market then absorb that or price is just going to go like is it just creating this crazy volatility single family homes i just mean in terms of like the rental rate


00:24:55 Taylor Atkinson
mean in terms of like the rental rate whether that's like maybe a combination of Airbnb and long -term, like long -term seems to be pretty suppressed. Like you can get some nice long -term rental. Well, I mean, like if you're talking half price, like you are motivated just to like rent at this stage. And then like the Airbnb, yeah, it might call some of the, you know, that would in there. I really hope so.


00:25:17 Deana Steele
would in there. I really hope so. I think it's going to be slower to like purge or wash out maybe some of those non -serious or people who are in a pinch. I thought it should have happened by now before we get to this two -year mark of not being able to offer short -term rentals. People are really doing a great job of hanging in there. It's crazy. These newer condos, the financing is so high. They're subsidizing more than half of what they need to carry that property with the rental income. Like it's wild to me and they're all still hanging in there. So what am I banking on with my personal properties is I'm doing an evaluation. Ryan and I have our family meetings every two weeks. I was like, OK, let's calculate. Like, let's see. What are properties netting right now? We still have a mortgage on it, say, 2028, 2029. Maybe things will be stabilized. We have a great address, downtown waterfront. Would it be smart to sell at that point? Are we going to wait for another market cycle? Because there's not a lot of condos under construction now, right? It's all rental apartments. Will condos eventually recover? I don't know. I'm going to do that calculation. Then every year, I'm just going to kind of wait and see. Yeah, I don't know. I was hoping to see some of it. I'm not seeing anyone budge. Like everyone's got their heels in. Yeah, no crystal ball. It's really hard to say, but everybody's hanging in there.


00:26:41 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. And then in terms of like tourism, maybe we can kind of shift gears a little bit. Obviously, like the airport's a huge value add to Kelowna. We do have a ton of events coming on, but even you said like pre -show with these events, there's not like a lot of bookings. What does like Kelowna as a whole need to do? And I'm kind of asking you to like put your hat on as, you know, DeVille coffee shop entrepreneur, you know, love that spot. What are you guys seeing from like the small business community to like thrive in this scenario or prepare to it? you know to pick back up yeah well okay so i have a printed welcome book in my vacation rentals and i have had to update every single page every single category because we have small businesses dropping like flies like some of my favorites i don't just put anybody in my book like i don't put like cactus club in there even though i do have a cactus club veggie burger um


00:27:11 Deana Steele
well okay so i have a printed welcome book in my vacation rentals and i have had to update every single page every single category because we have small businesses dropping like flies like some of my favorites i don't just put anybody in my book like i don't put like cactus club in there even though i do have a cactus club veggie burger um The businesses that I love that I think are doing such incredible work are going out of business and I'm having to update. So for me, when I travel, I'm looking for those like. artisan, cool, you know, and when I don't see a lot, like I basically drop pins all over my Google map and I know exactly where I want to stay when I go to a city because there's a cluster there. Anytime I see something on Instagram in whatever country or city, I drop a pin. So if I'm coming to Kelowna and seeing all these no pins, why would I want to go there? I want to go where all my pins are. For me, seeing all these cool smaller businesses not naked, that hurts because I'm like, why would you want to go to Kelowna if you like the food scene or the culture scene, if it's not there yet? Or you'd hear in the media, all these small businesses are closing. What's going on here? Why would anyone want to come? We do have Memorial Cup. It's a 10 -day event. And in the past, when we have those events, do really well. I have short -term rentals licensed at the moment that aren't booked for those dates. I've had small inquiries for people who are. like looking for just like a three -day holiday but normally you get like the groupies and they'll travel from wherever to come for that entire period. I'm not seeing that right now. I'm not seeing that lift. We have the BC Lions coming for two games. I feel like that's a great asset for the locals here in Kelowna. I don't know if that's going to be a huge lift for tourism. It'll add a little bit of volume to the city for sure, but I don't think it's a huge draw. I don't think all the Vancouverites with season's tickets are going to be like, let's go to Kelowna and spend a ton of money when we have season's tickets to enjoy our games at home. You know, even the country music festival, that was really cool. The hotels were booked out. The city did lots of cool stuff. But like, it's such a short amount of time for short term rentals. Three nights. Like, what does that do for me in the grand scheme of things?


00:29:33 Taylor Atkinson
Well, it's just another tiny little booking.


00:29:33 Deana Steele
just another tiny little


00:29:34 Taylor Atkinson
booking. Is it also maybe like a Canadian problem? Like just economically, Canadians don't really want to travel, they have it in the budget. So it's not like really like a Kelowna issue, but like you could lower prices indefinitely. The Canadians,


00:29:46 Matt Glen
Canadians, yeah, they're also about coming to the States. I know that I have a pilot friend who's like sitting in a ton of the flights. Yeah. So like, it's not like you're going elsewhere. yeah but i found like you're right like with the


00:29:57 Deana Steele
i found like you're right like with the Families, they're not spending as much. They have already trimmed down from like minimum seven nights or 10 night stays to five nights on average. So those averages have come down. People spending are coming down. I see people coming for special events like weddings, but they're changing how many holidays they're taking or they're going big on one big trip. And that's not to Kelowna. That's just some more exotic destination. That's been a pattern for probably the last three seasons that I've seen. You know, post -COVID, everyone's like, let's go on a big trip and let's really go for it. And then we'll stick around closer to home. So, yeah, no, I think it is a Canada -wide problem for sure.


00:30:42 Taylor Atkinson
Do you think, like, and this is going to be a tough question, but do you think in the future there'll be any new zoning for Airbnb? Like, will a developer ever build another zoned Airbnb property? Like, two parts to this is... Like, why would they take on that risk of like, this is pretty recent history. Like, this is going to sting for a while. I know we have short memories, but like, would you ever build? Because you just. I wouldn't.


00:31:04 Deana Steele
wouldn't. I would have told everybody that was on the pre -sales in 2021, that's not going to cash flow. This $750 ,000, $800 ,000 condo is not going to cash flow. There's only so much someone's going to spend at this point in time, unless, you know, no one's going to spend $1 ,000 a night, even though I did get a booking for $975 a night. for a two -bedroom condo. I think that was pretty lucky. No one's going to spend that kind of cash often to make these little tiny condos cash flow. So back in 2021, I thought, okay, this is getting a little too, it's too trendy. And what am I seeing now is a trend with my peers, boutique hotels. Everyone wants a boutique hotel. I'm like, how many boutique hotel stays have you had in the last two years?


00:31:48 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, there's a couple overseas that were awesome.


00:31:51 Deana Steele
Yeah. Overseas. Yeah. One here I've done. Loved it. But I'm not like every year I'm like, I got to go stay at a little petite hotel or whatever. You know, I've stayed in fancy, big brand hotels. That's the next trend. I think it's very trendy. Everyone thought that Airbnbs was going to be this like, and it is. It was lucrative. But now everyone and their dog. is doing it on multiple scales. Like some of our investors have multiple Airbnbs.


00:32:16 Taylor Atkinson
Well, it also evolved so quickly. It went from like renting someone's house where you literally like. went in there and like you were eating, like there was food left over. Like it was just like, yeah, someone said it was like couch surfing. And then it went to like, no, I want the house to be like pristine. I don't want anyone to live there. Like it's got to be a full time, you know, just like evolved so quickly. So I guess something had to break.


00:32:38 Deana Steele
Yeah. Look at the institutions. Marriott Bonvoy reached out and they started this homes and villas, but they aren't building anything. They're just a platform that wants their cut of 15%, but they're not creating. a product like this. They're building big, beautiful resorts, these institutions, not these cutesy little boutique hotels. You know, like in the industry, they say you need a minimum of 20 rooms to make it viable. Otherwise, you're just kind of buying yourself a job. So I don't even think those are sustainable, these tiny little projects. I don't think they're going to last very long. I don't think those investors are going to be able to keep them up. There's a reason hotels renovate every five years. There's no way these little boutique hotels are going to be able to afford to do stuff like that. compete. I do think that's a little trendy, but no, I wouldn't build a short -term rental building again. I thought a building like the Shore here where DeVille Coffee on Lakeshore is located was the genius move. I was always so envious. It's owned by one entity. They have all their operations centralized like a hotel, but you can self -check in like a short -term rental and they're not doing it. So I wouldn't build a building. I would say, you know, in the future, if a building wants to change and get that STR subzone, that would be great because the hybrid solution in my mind is the way to go. You can do a little bit of short term, fill the gaps in between what I call executive rentals, like 30 day stays. Having that opportunity to fill those little gaps is the only way I think people are going to survive this. Doing full time short term rentals? No way. If you open up your calendar. for a whole year and someone books right now three days in october for some festival and you get an executive renter here for five months here for a work project at the airport or something those are good gigs it's a whole team of people they need and they need like five condos i can't book that property because i've got a three -day stay in october so i think that hybrid solution is great but yeah don't open your calendars up too early everyone feels so good When they get a reservation with a huge lead time, but really you're shooting yourself in the foot.


00:34:46 Taylor Atkinson
So is the strategy then go executive and then fill the gaps or like are people now reverting back to like, hey, I'm going to use my primary residence like legitimately how it was supposed to be intended of I'm going on vacation for a month. Like I'm going to fill that in. Like, where's the opportunity? So when we had a lot of construction, I was hosting tons of teams,


00:35:03 Deana Steele
So when we had a lot of construction, I was hosting tons of teams, right? Like I hosted basically. three groups that were working on UBCO Tower downtown, back to back to back. They all need multiple units. They always had to extend because things were going wrong. Oh, it was great. Went from four months to 10 months. I was like, so good. Yeah, so good. Or film. Right now, film's booming. So those ones ebb and flow depending on the season. Sometimes they're one -month stays. Sometimes they're three -month stays. And then short -term rentals, of course, you want to open up July and August. Except if we're going to fire, you lose. This is what happened in 2023. When the fire started in August, I lost all my reservations. Every single one of them. And nothing recovered. No one came back. Normally you have the season until mid -October, just after Thanksgiving. Nothing. So that's huge risk. Whereas if I had locked in someone for three or four months at a little bit of a lower rate, we would have come out ahead. So how much lead time? Like I love. Not only for operations, for getting that person in, but right now because all of my owners are just so emotionally like, when's the next reservation going to come? When I get them like a three -month or four -month reservation, it puts them at ease, gives them some stability, some planning, a little bit of maybe some padding in the bank, maybe not. And then once summer comes, I know I'll be able to fill those July -August dates. Not too sure about June. Usually September is a higher performer. And then, yeah, I'm going to hustle hard and try and find somebody who's here for like restoration, flood, fire, any work projects, nomadic travelers. They used to be really good. Those used to be really great reservations, but there's not as many nomads traveling here anymore. You know, coming for a month and spending premium while they've been traveling for three years. So just have to move with those industries.


00:37:02 Taylor Atkinson
And I mean, moving industries. So why start a coffee shop?


00:37:06 Deana Steele
right yeah well i had to diversify a little bit because You know, I had a little bit of money to deploy and I was like, there aren't affordable condos to purchase. And this rental game, like I was really lucky to get the last condo that I bought, the price I did, and it's done really well. But things just went crazy after that. And I saw the writing on the wall because I am tapped into this industry, how saturated it was. I remember posting something on Instagram, I think like, maybe it was 2022. Like, why is no one talking about all of these buildings that were supposed to finish 2024, but ended up finishing 2025, like Aqua? That was delayed a year, Movala, phase one and two, Caban. Like, why wasn't anyone saying like, oh, also there's like three other massive, beautiful developments right in the same area finishing at the same time. So I was like, there's no way. But I didn't want to buy a coffee shop. I don't want to be in food and beverage. But I was like, I need to diversify. It's not going to be real estate. It's got to be some sort of small business that's already operating. you know, come in, breathe some new life to it. I love business. If anyone's like, what's your hobby? I'm like, I like to work, but I love business and just coming in and seeing something. So I was like, okay. So I started hunting. When was that? March, 2024. Summer got busy. And then I was like, okay. So I picked up my computer one night and I was like, it was October 22nd, 2024. I was like, let's look. And on the last page of my search that night was this DeVille coffee shop. And I love the DeVille brand. Like Jenna, who opened the location downtown, I was like, oh my God, the breakfast sandwich. I was like, it is so good. I literally bought this coffee shop because of that breakfast sandwich. Because everything is handmade and it was like a luxury brand. It wasn't just a coffee shop. Few things. I've been very humbled by this experience. But first of all, it was a startup. I wanted to buy something that was already operating. This was a startup. But because it was a franchise, Canadian franchise, very small, they do all that dirty work for you, which is the fun stuff, the menu planning and the logos and the design and all that stuff. But it can be very distracting from business. So it didn't feel like a startup per se. The location is in the heart of those three huge developments that all finished at the same time. And it was a good price. Like I saved a lot of money. So I was like, I can't pass up this opportunity. It's like one of those opportunities where you're like, how did you find that deal? It was the last page.


00:39:37 Taylor Atkinson
was the last page. And was it like. The franchise opportunity at the location like someone was. Yes,


00:39:41 Deana Steele
Yes, it was that address. So I knew because I live in the area. I drive by it all the time. I knew Jenna. I knew about the brand. Actually, my friend and I worked at Starbucks together, my operating partner who's working in the business. We worked at Starbucks 25 years together and we actually worked with one of the founders who bought the brand. In 1999 in Starbucks, he basically opened Starbucks here in Kona. So we had like coffee experience. I knew what the Starbucks in the mission did for sales in comparison to all the other locations in the city. People spend more money in this part of town. So I was like, I know exactly what the potential is. Did I overestimate? Absolutely. But you got to shoot for this. But I mean,


00:40:22 Taylor Atkinson
mean, speaking about Starbucks, so they just shut down.


00:40:25 Deana Steele
They did. Well, there's like eight coffee shops and two quarters. Well, yeah.


00:40:29 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, so the Starbucks near that roundabout. Stuttered really quickly.


00:40:31 Deana Steele
Stuttered really quickly.


00:40:32 Taylor Atkinson
Which, yeah, I was surprised because I drove by the other day. I'm like, oh,


00:40:35 Deana Steele
that's fine. On the long weekend, yeah.


00:40:36 Taylor Atkinson
On the long weekend, yeah. Eight months, it was like, you, Bright Jenny, there's... Sandrine.


00:40:41 Deana Steele
Sandrine.


00:40:42 Taylor Atkinson
Sandrine popped up. Black Rabbit. Black Rabbits. Tim Hortons.


00:40:46 Deana Steele
Yeah. New Starbucks.


00:40:47 Taylor Atkinson
It was like... Half Bean.


00:40:48 Deana Steele
Half Bean. Oh, yeah. No, we were like, okay, like, and would I want to open a second one across the street? Absolutely. Would that be a good idea? Probably not. But Starbucks is doing a big reevaluation of the company, and that's kind of like a C store, whereas like the Hayes, yeah, so no big deal. But it probably freed up like a million dollars in sales for all of that little coffee shop. Totally. Yeah.


00:41:11 Taylor Atkinson
Good treat.


00:41:12 Deana Steele
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Had I known like, yeah, Bright Jenny and Sandrine's opened after we did and I didn't know that they were coming. But that's also showing like this area has like Sandrine opening their Sandrine opening their second location, the city parlor, ice cream opening their second location and this little hub. I was like, this is going to be the next little hub kind of away from the downtown. shenanigans a little bit more elevated so i was like okay there's a few things that are all kind of lining up here that I said, I got to take advantage of this. And we're basically jumping on what I like to say, a moving train. It wasn't moving very fast. We had to push it along to get it going. But things were already in motion. So it was a fast startup that wasn't going to distract me from Keys to Kelowna. So we have an operating partner in there who's killing it on customer service. Oh my gosh, she's so good. Our goal is to be like the friendliest coffee shop in Kelowna. Yeah, it's so good because I walk into coffee shops and I'm like, sorry, did you have a coffee? Yeah. Are you going to be here? Like, I love coffee and I love being around people. So anyways, that was our goal. We're like, no grumpy baristas. Absolutely not. That doesn't happen here. Yeah, it's been fun, humbling. Everyone's like, how are you doing? And I'm like, great. Now that I've reset my expectations, I'm now exceeding my expectations. I had a big overhaul of what I thought was going to happen. But it's true business. It takes a few years to stabilize. I haven't had to put any more money in. So that's fantastic.


00:42:43 Taylor Atkinson
That location, like once occupancy really starts to form up. But you did list. 2028. I love coffee, but I also love ice cream. I do feel like there's a lot of ice cream shop. Crazy, hey? It is wild. Crazy. I think they do well with DoorDash.


00:42:54 Deana Steele
think they do well with DoorDash. I don't DoorDash. I just can't. Like, they only opened up right around the corner from our place. So excited. I only do takeout from, like, two places in the city, and that's one of them. So I'm so stoked. But now I get to take my own Tupperware. My own glass containers. So I don't DoorDash or anything. I'm like, you're putting boiling food and plastic. Absolutely not. But anyway, so I go there now.


00:43:18 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, totally. I never DoorDash either. Yeah.


00:43:20 Deana Steele
Yeah. I can't. I can't. I can't. I've only door dashed once in my life when I couldn't walk for three days. I was like, I need somebody to bring me food. And like trying to tell the man to come into your house. I was like, no, no, you need to come bring me my food. But yeah, I think ice cream's got to be a great business. It's the evening, right? Coffee shops back in the day used to be open till, like when I worked at Starbucks, we were open till 11. So people would come in. Now it's ice cream. You go grab an ice cream, go for a walk in the evening after dinner. It's not a coffee. Yeah. What's your opening time then?


00:43:51 Taylor Atkinson
your opening time then? You guys aren't open super late. No,


00:43:54 Deana Steele
7 to 4, 7 to 5. We're going to be 7 to 5 probably all year forever moving forward. We just needed to figure that out. That 5 o 'clock was a good time.


00:44:02 Taylor Atkinson
And then the value is like super friendly, more of like a luxury, like obviously the breakfast sandwich is great.


00:44:08 Deana Steele
Oh my gosh. The food's all handmade, local artisanal pastries, the coffee's fantastic. Yeah, no, but it's $10 ,000 filtered water. Like it's really good. I probably got the cleanest ice in the city, too.


00:44:23 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, it's awesome. I love it.


00:44:24 Deana Steele
Yeah, no, it's a great spot. Really beautiful. And we're open 365 days of the year. Christmas Day is like a gift to the city. Like, it was... Such a cool experience. Everyone volunteers if they want to work for Christmas Day. And one of our girls was like, my family doesn't live here and I don't have anyone to be with. And put the Christmas music on. And it was awesome. And then same with New Year's Day. No one was open. And people were walking from downtown to come to us. They're like, thank you. Thank you for being open. And I was like, this is such a cool experience. It's why they call it a third space. From your home and work is the third space where you spend time with people. And I was like, that's really what it is.


00:45:01 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah.


00:45:01 Deana Steele
It's a beautiful spot. Yeah.


00:45:02 Taylor Atkinson
And you also have online, like mobile. ordering.


00:45:05 Deana Steele
Yeah, because Starbucks, 65 percent of their business is mobile. So people order on their phones. You don't have to wait, which is great. So you can drive right up beside the store, run in, grab your stuff off the counter. And yeah.


00:45:17 Taylor Atkinson
And man, I'm just coming up with. Wow,


00:45:19 Deana Steele
I love it. Yeah.


00:45:20 Taylor Atkinson
Now you get the parking at the back, like scan the QR code.


00:45:24 Deana Steele
Yeah. Free parking. Yeah. Yeah. Which a lot of people don't know because, I mean, some of those beach goers, because we're right across from Gyro Beach, they gobble up all that free parking on the street. So we have two dedicated lots for our customers, for all of the businesses in that area. So yeah, and we're looking at doing like a campaign with some of the other businesses in the other buildings, especially once Mobile's commercial space builds up, which will be beautiful to draw more activity and draw more eyeballs to that area. Because I really do think like it's an awesome little hub. We just have a few more spots to fill and it'll be a vibe. Yeah, it'll be a vibe. Yeah. I know some of my owners were worried. They were like, oh, you're going to be spending too much time. But my whole idea was like, diversify, have an operator in there that's running all the day to day. And, you know, in a few years, hopefully it'll cut me a check. Yeah. Cool. And I think, you know, I say this to people, too. Like when I first started, like I've been in the rental space doing executive rentals for like 22 years. But my short -term rental, full -time dedicated short -term rental really took till year three to start turning good. revenue. I think we made just a tiny bit of money in the first year and just a smidge and more in the second year, but you have to pay for all your startup. Like you have to cash out of pocket, putting $40 ,000 to furnish a unit or elevating it, maybe new floors, new counters, whatever. You've got to pay that back. So when people are thinking, I'm going to make money right out of the gate with a short -term rental that they're launching, I'm like, no, you're not. In any business, it takes a few years to stabilize. So I think people need to remember. that you know ryan's got his golf tour and his third year he just passed in his fourth year he's about to blow up so 12 six golf it is yeah are you guys you're a golfer right do you golf yeah i wouldn't class my class of golfers we have clubs yeah nice and you hit ball with club yeah some most of the time yeah where the ball goes could not tell you but yeah yeah but yeah so yeah we're just trying to diversify not to say that real estate's a


00:47:06 Taylor Atkinson
is yeah are


00:47:07 Deana Steele
you guys you're a golfer right do you golf yeah i


00:47:10 Taylor Atkinson
wouldn't class my class of golfers we have clubs yeah


00:47:13 Deana Steele
nice and you hit ball with club yeah some


00:47:16 Taylor Atkinson
most of the time yeah where the ball goes could not tell you but yeah


00:47:20 Deana Steele
yeah but yeah so yeah we're just trying to diversify not to say that real estate's a bad investment it's just right now it's really expensive here yeah so are you guys considering any other investment opportunities at the moment i mean well emily and i are closing on socana which is in pentagon right which is a short -term rental yeah so there's yeah soon i wish it would just get delayed longer yeah um everybody yeah but like they're pivoting kind of like it's hard to say exactly what they're going to do but they're supposed to pivot to like a


00:47:34 Taylor Atkinson
mean well emily and i are closing on socana which is in pentagon right


00:47:37 Deana Steele
right which is a short -term rental yeah


00:47:39 Taylor Atkinson
so there's yeah soon i wish it would just get delayed longer yeah


00:47:45 Deana Steele
um everybody yeah


00:47:47 Taylor Atkinson
but like they're pivoting kind of like it's hard to say exactly what they're going to do but they're supposed to pivot to like a hotel resort community where they have the concierge so they can actually like get away from the restrictions of legislation i mean pros and cons but like the con to me is well then it's you're using their in -house management it's marketed the same it's furnished the same you can't really put your unit above and beyond anyone else and then how do you like control occupancy so but obviously the pro is like we're kind of handcuffed to do anything else. So yeah, that's kind of where we're at. But yeah, the operating side of businesses, I think, are better in Canada right now. Like, you know, the passive income, like that time has kind of come and gone. There are still some good opportunities, but yeah, harder to come by.


00:48:32 Deana Steele
Yeah, I'd be interested to see if still Canada does go that way, just seeing kind of the mess at the Cove, right? There's owners that are pulling out of that pool. Then what happens to the rest of those owners that are in that pool for like hotel operations and the business management? If you're taking that revenue out, that's scary to think of like what's going to happen to those owners in that style of development. So I'd probably like hopefully vote no to that, you know, and being handcuffed to a manager who. So I'm talking about this new resort. Yes. No, they did. Yeah. Because if you just have, I was talking to a developer who's looking at doing like a boutique hotel and we were talking about it and I was like, okay, what's your operations plan? Oh, we're just going to have like a general manager and they're going to do with pricing, like pricing.


00:49:21 Matt Glen
Like, have you seen Schitt's Creek?


00:49:22 Deana Steele
Yeah. Pricing. Being a pricing manager alone is a full -time job. Like just having somebody who's just a warm body doing that and then managing customer service and kind of being a handy person. Like it's not just an every man's job, which is what I find organizations like that do is they just kind of find like, okay, are you going to take $22 an hour? Perfect. Yeah, here's some software. Just make sure it doesn't stop working, you know? You kind of want to feel a little bit.


00:49:54 Matt Glen
of want to feel a little bit.


00:49:57 Deana Steele
Yeah, a little bit more elevated. Yeah. And like the labor is expensive. Another thing I learned from the coffee shop. Holy moly. So, yeah, happy labor. Yeah, you can buy miserable labor.


00:50:08 Matt Glen
Only two pieces of labor.


00:50:13 Taylor Atkinson
Well, yeah, obviously, if anyone wants to reach out to you, Keys to Kelowna, Instagram. But yeah, otherwise, get to the coffee shop. What's your favorite drink there right now?


00:50:22 Deana Steele
Oh, a Nutella oat milk latte.


00:50:23 Taylor Atkinson
Oh, man. Oh. Wow. I did not see that coming from you. Yes, that is so good. Oh,


00:50:28 Deana Steele
Oh, it's the best.


00:50:29 Taylor Atkinson
I don't know. I thought I was the only one that had like a childish sweet tooth nut to like. Oh,


00:50:33 Deana Steele
Oh, no. No, no, no, no. I have two, two days in a row. And I'm like, yes. And then we did a matcha white hot chocolate with peppermint. I'm not a huge matcha drinker. I am now. So good. And then the summer, Earl Grey lemonade. So good. Yeah. Thanks for the plug. It's a beautiful coffee shop. Great brand. Would I open another coffee shop otherwise? Probably not. The margins are small. You need to do volume. And we are positioned to take on volume like Starbucks. Like we can do that. Eventually. Yeah. Once they get absorbed.


00:51:10 Matt Glen
We're closing the next couple of months. Yeah.


00:51:14 Deana Steele
Yeah, well, those will be vacant for a long time, too. I'm actually shocked how many investors. Movala, I was told by the sales team, oh, 50 % will be residents, 50 % will be investors. I'm like, 90 % are investors in that building. It's beautiful, though. But when I say a lot of summer birds, like all the people that I'm working with, they're like, we want to use it for the summer. And then I'll just sit there. And I was like, well, let me rent it if it's nice.


00:51:41 Deana Steele
So yeah, will they be gobbled up anytime soon? Probably not, but I'm waiting for 2028, maybe 2027. Being patient. Nice. Yeah. Hang in there, everyone.


00:51:50 Taylor Atkinson
Before then.


00:51:51 Deana Steele
Yeah.


00:51:52 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. There'll be something new to talk about.


00:51:54 Deana Steele
Rolling in their gold chains. No, I'm just kidding.


00:51:57 Taylor Atkinson
Okay. Thanks, Deana.