90: Kelowna's "Fast-Track" Infill Program with City of Kelowna's Graham Allison & SNDBOX's Aaron Whalen

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Welcome back to the Kelowna Real
Estate Podcast.

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I'm your mortgage broker host,
Taylor Atkinson.

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And I'm your real estate agent
host, Matt Glen.

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What's happening today, Taylor?
Good show today, man.

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We double dipped.

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That's a twofer.

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Yeah.

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Graham Allison from City of

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Kelowna, come on.

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Talk about all things owning.

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We obviously saw some massive
changes provincially and in our

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own municipality.

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Basically, just talking about

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changing from the RU to the MF,
what that means, what directions

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the city's going, and provincially
kind of what's happening.

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The fast track and...

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Fast Track competition?

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Yeah.

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And then part two to this show, we

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brought on Aaron Whalen, who was
one of the winners for the Fast

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Track program.

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So if you haven't heard about

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that, basically City of Kelowna
put on a competition to help

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promote infill.

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And it's like a $15 ,000.

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You purchase this product, has the
renderings, has the architectural

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approval, the city approval.

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You still have to do a survey, but

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it is like, hey.

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Here's your BPDP.

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Go build what's already approved.

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So really cool program with a lot

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of evolution behind it.

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So kudos to the city of Kelowna.

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Yeah, it's kind of the way the
episode is.

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First half, talking to the city.

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Second half, talking with the

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designer.

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It's pretty cool.

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It's very interesting for the
infill in our city, like not just

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downtown where traditionally it's
been downtown kind of.

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Martin Stockwell, that area.

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And then the other side, which is

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around the hospital, basically the
entire flat area of Kelowna.

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So like Springfield Small,
Rutland, Rutland North, Rutland

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South.

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It's exciting.

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Big emphasis on properties to
develop that don't have lane

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access, which for the last few
years has been like a major, you

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can just tell right away when you
walk up to a property, if it has a

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lane access or not, if it's going
to be developable or not.

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But city really wants to make the
ones with no lane access

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accessible.

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And they talk about that with both

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people.

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today?

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Yeah, for me, some of the
takeaway, like you said, we're not

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just talking about lane access
now.

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And you can build as many or as
little units as you want, really.

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And we can finance both of them
with two very creative products

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that are insured mortgages.

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So minimum down payment, you go

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with the MLI, you can stretch it
out to 50 -year amortization.

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Now, me putting on my investor
hat.

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analyzing these, they still don't
make a huge amount of sense in

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terms of return on investment.

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However, it's not to say that

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that's not going to happen soon.

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Interest rates come down a little

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bit.

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Cool programs from the city of

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Kelowna, like waiving property
taxes for the next 10 years if

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they're purpose -built rentals.

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So they are getting this stuff

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aligned.

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It's just as soon as the stars

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aligned, you want to be prepared.

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So I think it's good education.

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And yeah, reach out to the city's
great.

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Awesome resource.

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And Aaron as well.

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Give the guy a call.

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Oh my God.

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They're both are.

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Yeah.

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It's funny.

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Just thinking out loud here when

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you were talking there, like, so
basically the interest rates are

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almost the only thing that can
come down because land prices.

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are likely not coming down or not
coming down significantly enough

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to make a real difference, right?
We were just talking off air about

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the difference on these projects.

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If you buy a land for 1 .1, or

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even if you take 300K off of that,
which is not going to happen, but

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even if you did, like that's only
300 ,000 off a four plus million

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dollar project at the end.

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That helps, not everything.

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Inflation's like under control
now, but prices aren't back down.

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We're just up and there's not
going up as fast anymore, right?

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So like once prices are a certain
way, they don't come back down.

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So how does this get more
affordable?

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It seems to me like the interest
rates are the only real lever.

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Yeah, the interest rates, the
longer amortization with the MLS

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Select, amortization with the MLS
Select, I think little incentives

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like waiving the property tax or
even, I know this isn't going to

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happen.

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I spoke with the city about this,

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but maybe in the long, long
future, potentially like waiving

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DCC fees.

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during the build application and

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incorporating it at time of
occupancy permit or something like

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that.

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There's got to be some more

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creative things in the pipeline
that make it more affordable to at

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least get the unit there and then
consolidate that in the financing.

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So I think the direction the city
and the province are going, there

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will be opportunities.

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Can't really say exactly what they

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are now.

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But yeah, if you're looking at

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just, hey, I want a cash flow, I
don't think these work in today's

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market.

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they're not far off now.

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And also they might not cashflow
today, they might not cashflow

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today, but my God, would it be
nice to have a sixplex going to

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Kelowna for the next 20, 30 years?
Like, I don't think you're going

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wrong with that at all.

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Okay.

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So really cool thing that Aaron
highlighted is his mindset when he

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was doing the design.

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thing that Aaron highlighted is

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his mindset when he was doing the
design.

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And again, like his designs were
beautiful is like generational

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type family living.

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So this allows you to maybe have.

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one or two units of rental income.

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And then, you know, you split it

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with a brother, a mother or
whatever kind of setup you want.

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But if you have a current single
family house and you want to

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convert it and have, you know,
generational type family with some

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rental income, that's a pretty
good approach.

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You know, it doesn't all have to
cashflow.

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If you're like, Hey, I want to
live in this area and provide

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housing for my family and provide
some rental income.

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Here's an option.

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So yeah, I think you guys are

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going to love the show.

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Reach out to those guys at any

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point.

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those guys at any point.

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And remember, it's two halves, so
kind of 15 minutes and then 20

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minutes.

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So they're awesome.

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Yeah, yeah.

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This show, like every show,

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sponsored by Century 21 Assurance
Realty, the best brokerage in

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town, the biggest brokerage in
town, and my brokerage.

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If you're an agent looking for a
change or you want to go for

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coffee and talk about it, I'm
always open.

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So is Max Dean at our office.

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And if you're a buyer or seller

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looking for an agent, Century 21,
place to go.

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Or you can just call me.

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All right.

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Enjoy the show, guys.

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Graham Allison from the city of

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Kelowna, thanks for joining us,
man.

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How are you?
Thanks for having me on, guys.

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Yeah, I'm doing well.

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Good.

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Well, we want to dive straight
into the information that you guys

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have been working on.

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I mean, I would imagine your

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department has been just buried in
policy changes and just evolution

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of city planning over the last
little bit.

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I think Matt's probably more up to
speed with all this knowledge,

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being kind of boots on the ground.

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But for myself and general

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public...

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Can you let us know what has

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happened over the last 6 to 12
months for planning, infill, fast

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track, and where are we going?
And we'll just go from there.

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Sure thing.

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Yeah.

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So it has been a very busy couple
of months for us in the housing

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policy department.

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There's been some big major zoning

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changes, which were dictated by
the provincial planning

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legislation, which came into
effect at the beginning of 2024.

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Two major changes to zoning would
be the SSMUH, or the small scale

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multi -unit housing reforms, which
basically ordered cities over 5

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,000 people to establish a
permanent growth boundary and then

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do basically blanket.

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rezonings or prezonings of all.

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single -family residential lots
within that boundary to allow four

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to six units.

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So how that looks in the city of

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Kelowna and how it's been
implemented is within the core

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area, all single -family lots have
been rezoned to MF1, which is the

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multifamily one housing zone.

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The MF1 zone allows for up to six

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units within three stories as a
general rule.

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Outside of the core area, in the
suburban neighborhoods, so we're

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talking the Mission, some parts of
Rotland, the RU1 zone has

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essentially been changed to allow
four housing units.

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So and that would be like two
story, four unit townhome, similar

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to what sort of the existing
infill sort of around the hospital

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in downtown looks like now.

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The other change is the transit

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-oriented areas, kind of areas
around major transit exchanges,

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such as the Rutland Exchange,
around the Pandosi Urban Center,

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and around Orchard Mall have been
rezoned to allow up to 10 stories,

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and those don't have any parking
minimums.

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But, you know, as it affects
infill housing, the small -scale

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multi -unit is sort of the major
change for the majority of single

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-family laws within the city.

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For the parking variance, or like

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no parking, is that a city or
province -wide thing?

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I know in Vancouver, they've
established it, but.

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Yeah, so it's a provincial
mandate.

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So essentially what it says is
that the city can't enforce a

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minimum parking requirement on
developments within that area.

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It doesn't mean that no parking is
going to get built.

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Obviously, developers are still
going to build units that they

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think they can sell.

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In a city like Kelowna, those

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usually will include a parking
stall.

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But, you know, general kind of
planning scholarship over the last

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kind of. 20 years has found that
the way that cities determine

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these parking minimums aren't
necessarily the most scientific.

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So by not enforcing a strict
minimum, it's more about letting

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the market decide how much parking
can be allotted to these units

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while still making them
financially feasible to build.

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Okay.

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And then in terms of like, you

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know, for future planning, what
does the city want to see?

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Like, what is your ideal kind of
land development info?

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Obviously you've, you guys have
come out with a fast track, which

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is like an amazing.

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concept and it's being utilized

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right now.

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Is that the direction like the

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city wants to go is essentially
fast, efficient building of

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density?
Yeah, the way that the city's laid

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out our official community plan is
to get the most density around our

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urban centers or our largest
employment centers and also try to

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channel more of that density in
sort of the six story typology

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along transit supportive
corridors.

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So this is to get that kind of
critical mass around places where

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then we can begin to expand our
transit options and our mass

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transit.

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Everything else around there,

253
00:08:38,020 --> 00:08:41,039
since we don't have space to
continue greenfield developments

254
00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,320
in new single family housing, is
to build what we call missing

255
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,820
middle, which is essentially
multifamily housing that still

256
00:08:45,820 --> 00:08:48,860
falls under that single family
housing part of the building code.

257
00:08:48,860 --> 00:08:51,960
It's part nine in the BC building
code.

258
00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,860
So generally, if you were to build
a single family house, you don't

259
00:08:54,860 --> 00:08:58,000
need to go through a form of
character, you know, a development

260
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,560
permit process to just build a
single family house.

261
00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:02,780
Generally for four plexes, three
plexes and up, we require a form

262
00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:04,280
and character development permit.

263
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,180
So the intent of the fast track

264
00:09:06,180 --> 00:09:10,080
process is to make it so that we
can still meet those form and

265
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,460
character guidelines that are
established by our official

266
00:09:12,460 --> 00:09:15,590
community plan, but without
needing to have a three to four

267
00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:19,630
month kind of turnaround to do a
rezoning in the development

268
00:09:19,810 --> 00:09:20,190
permit.

269
00:09:20,190 --> 00:09:21,830
So the FastTrack essentially takes

270
00:09:21,830 --> 00:09:26,290
pre -approved designs that staff
have approved that meet all of our

271
00:09:26,290 --> 00:09:29,230
OCP guidelines, as well as our
building and permitting

272
00:09:29,230 --> 00:09:29,530
guidelines.

273
00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:30,830
And so when an application comes

274
00:09:30,830 --> 00:09:33,670
through, we can issue that
development permit and building

275
00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:34,790
permit in the same timeframe.

276
00:09:34,930 --> 00:09:36,450
So make it so that an application

277
00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:39,730
for a fourplex or a sixplex
follows a similar timeline to what

278
00:09:39,730 --> 00:09:43,170
a single family house building
permit application would follow.

279
00:09:43,170 --> 00:09:45,890
Yeah, it's wild that this wasn't
done earlier.

280
00:09:45,890 --> 00:09:47,390
Like now that you guys have...

281
00:09:47,570 --> 00:09:48,830
executed it, it's like, wow, this

282
00:09:48,830 --> 00:09:50,410
is a pretty good idea, right?
Well, yeah.

283
00:09:50,410 --> 00:09:52,450
And interestingly, the city
actually did introduce a fast

284
00:09:52,450 --> 00:09:53,750
track process.

285
00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:55,310
I believe it was... between 2015

286
00:09:55,310 --> 00:09:56,130
and 2022.

287
00:09:56,270 --> 00:09:57,970
It's for a lot smaller area, sort

288
00:09:57,970 --> 00:10:00,830
of the area between downtown and
the hospital on those lots that

289
00:10:00,830 --> 00:10:05,660
are kind of lane loaded where you
started to see more and more

290
00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:06,080
fourplexes.

291
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:07,880
There were two designs that won a

292
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,560
competition back in those days
that were fast track eligible.

293
00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:14,220
And we ended up getting, you know,
dozens of those lots developed

294
00:10:14,220 --> 00:10:15,720
into those fast track houses.

295
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,160
So you can kind of see them if you

296
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,900
go through those neighborhoods.

297
00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:22,120
And they sort of helped catalyze

298
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,200
the development of other infill
housing within that neighborhood

299
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,760
as they gave people.

300
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,040
kind of an idea of what those site

301
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,480
plans and parking layouts could
look like.

302
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,220
So that program ended a couple of
years ago, partly because people

303
00:10:33,220 --> 00:10:37,180
were just starting to complain
about the fact that we had only

304
00:10:37,180 --> 00:10:41,030
two designs that were sort of
getting repeatedly built in that

305
00:10:41,030 --> 00:10:42,130
small area.

306
00:10:42,130 --> 00:10:44,450
So the new Fast Track de -applied

307
00:10:44,590 --> 00:10:45,570
throughout the entire core area.

308
00:10:45,570 --> 00:10:48,130
We started with four designs.

309
00:10:48,130 --> 00:10:49,950
And then those designs have some
different variations within them.

310
00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:52,230
And now we're working on adding
more and more designs and lot

311
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:56,570
types to that fast track so we can
get more diversity throughout the

312
00:10:56,570 --> 00:10:59,470
city, unlock new lots, and try to
expand that infill housing to

313
00:10:59,470 --> 00:11:01,750
other population centers like
Rutland and Glenmore, et cetera.

314
00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:03,790
Do you guys just take like new
permits that come in, like a new

315
00:11:04,070 --> 00:11:07,970
style fourplex that gets approved
and then be like, wow, let's add

316
00:11:07,970 --> 00:11:09,450
this to our fast track program.

317
00:11:09,450 --> 00:11:10,130
It was beautiful.

318
00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:10,990
We're not at that point yet.

319
00:11:10,990 --> 00:11:12,550
It's possible that we could get

320
00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:14,330
there in the future.

321
00:11:14,330 --> 00:11:17,050
The way that we did it for this

322
00:11:17,050 --> 00:11:20,110
phase is we had a design
competition for architects a

323
00:11:20,110 --> 00:11:22,010
couple of years back called the
infill challenge, which was

324
00:11:22,010 --> 00:11:24,850
targeted at unlocking lots that
aren't accessed by a lane.

325
00:11:25,050 --> 00:11:28,090
So front loaded lots to get some
design ideas for that.

326
00:11:28,090 --> 00:11:32,740
We then took those and adapted
them to the new zoning changes

327
00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:35,160
when that small scale multi -unit
housing legislation was adopted.

328
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:35,400
Nice.

329
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,120
to roll it out with these zoning

330
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:37,300
changes.

331
00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:38,960
But moving forward, we want to add

332
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,620
more and more lots that wouldn't
necessarily come to that

333
00:11:41,620 --> 00:11:42,480
architecture style competition.

334
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,520
So it is possible that we'll have

335
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,000
something like that in the future,
but not at this point.

336
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:48,120
Nice.

337
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,640
Yeah, I guess when you move into

338
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,700
areas like Rutland, where there
isn't like downtown and lower

339
00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:53,520
admission, Kelowna Celtic around
the hospital, they all have lanes,

340
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,100
but I guess in Rutland, less
prevalent, eh?

341
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,420
Yeah, it's less prevalent and it
can be a lot trickier to fit that

342
00:11:58,420 --> 00:11:59,880
parking, landscaping and kind of
garbage facilities all within

343
00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:00,200
those lots.

344
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,520
So that is one of the benefits of

345
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,300
having a competition is you can
have designers kind of try to meet

346
00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:07,180
that challenge.

347
00:12:07,180 --> 00:12:10,020
But one of the things that's been

348
00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:11,840
really successful about that
original infill area is that it

349
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:12,720
was lane access.

350
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,160
So you could really easily just

351
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,240
fit that garage coming right off
the lane.

352
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,400
So figuring out parking is
definitely one of the barriers to

353
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,520
all housing, but to infill housing
especially.

354
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:21,940
Yeah, interesting.

355
00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:23,740
I know a guy that's building a

356
00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:24,040
fourplex.

357
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,400
I think the lot can have six or

358
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,420
five, but he's doing a fourplex
and then parking and then...

359
00:12:29,420 --> 00:12:30,620
Putting a fifth unit above the
parking.

360
00:12:30,620 --> 00:12:30,700
Yeah.

361
00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:31,260
Outside the box.

362
00:12:31,260 --> 00:12:33,160
Way to think about it.

363
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:33,440
Oh, definitely.

364
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:33,580
Yeah.

365
00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:33,660
Yeah.

366
00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:36,340
So what about like with OCP, is
there any room for like applying

367
00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:38,540
for variants or like anything like
that?

368
00:12:38,620 --> 00:12:39,580
One comes to mind.

369
00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:41,820
I have a listing down and by the

370
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,300
hospital that's just shy of the
size needed for six stories.

371
00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:44,940
I think it's.

372
00:12:44,940 --> 00:12:47,920
1 ,400 meters, you need 1 ,400

373
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,100
square meters, is that right?
It's like 1 ,370 or something.

374
00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:54,320
Is that just off the table or is
there room for an application for

375
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,790
a variance there?
Not that I know.

376
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:57,490
that I know.

377
00:12:57,490 --> 00:12:59,190
I'm not one of the development

378
00:12:59,190 --> 00:13:02,870
planners, so I couldn't answer on
a project by project whether or

379
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:03,910
not they'd support a variance.

380
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:06,010
But with single stair egress being

381
00:13:06,010 --> 00:13:09,110
allowed by the BC Building Code
and being adopted in the near

382
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:12,770
future, there could be a change in
how we approach those sort of

383
00:13:12,770 --> 00:13:12,910
lots.

384
00:13:12,910 --> 00:13:15,290
But for me, I'd say that I'm not

385
00:13:15,290 --> 00:13:15,810
sure, really.

386
00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:17,050
That's what I've been telling

387
00:13:17,150 --> 00:13:17,350
people too.

388
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:17,450
Yeah.

389
00:13:17,450 --> 00:13:19,950
Personally, I would try to avoid
getting like individual variance

390
00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:21,750
questions as part of this just
because.

391
00:13:21,970 --> 00:13:22,450
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

392
00:13:22,570 --> 00:13:22,570
Yeah.

393
00:13:22,570 --> 00:13:23,290
It wasn't specifically about that.

394
00:13:23,370 --> 00:13:25,210
I was more just in general, right?

395
00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:30,230
Do people like, is this the rules
and that's the way it is?

396
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:33,730
Or is there room for like kind of
smudging the edges is what I was

397
00:13:33,730 --> 00:13:33,950
wondering.

398
00:13:33,950 --> 00:13:34,050
Yeah.

399
00:13:34,050 --> 00:13:34,670
the Yeah.

400
00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:36,950
I mean, variances can happen on a

401
00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:39,760
site -by -site basis if
development staff determine that,

402
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,320
you know, the benefits outweigh
the risks.

403
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,800
And with the new building code
updates, that could be more likely

404
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,480
on smaller lots for multi -story
developments above just MF1.

405
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,620
But, you know, know, it all
depends on where the lot is.

406
00:13:47,620 --> 00:13:50,480
I think this is why you guys came
out with, you know, similar like

407
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,660
fast track program though, right?
Is to stop going to like public

408
00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:57,320
hearings to stop kind of wasting a
lot of time reviewing and debating

409
00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,620
all of that stuff where it's like,
here's a black and white.

410
00:13:59,620 --> 00:14:02,040
This is what's going to be
approved and this is what's not.

411
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,500
Especially for infill, that was a
multi -year process.

412
00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:06,060
The first step was getting rid of
that rezoning.

413
00:14:07,330 --> 00:14:10,450
And really the biggest step for
infill housing is getting rid of

414
00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:12,430
the need to individually have to
rezone a lot.

415
00:14:12,570 --> 00:14:13,830
It adds so much time.

416
00:14:13,830 --> 00:14:16,930
It adds a ton of costs and a lot

417
00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:19,130
of uncertainty where now we have
basically any lot in the city.

418
00:14:19,130 --> 00:14:21,610
If you wanted to take it and build
four to six units, you can.

419
00:14:21,610 --> 00:14:22,470
So that alone increases the
timeline.

420
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:24,910
And we just tried to take as many
steps to say, if the building code

421
00:14:24,910 --> 00:14:31,350
classifies this as a single family
house, then how can we make it so

422
00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:35,250
that we can get these built as
quickly as we can with single

423
00:14:35,250 --> 00:14:40,550
family homes so we can get that
supply and we can cover that

424
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:40,810
deficit of housing.

425
00:14:40,810 --> 00:14:40,930
Yeah.

426
00:14:40,930 --> 00:14:43,410
I know like when you go farther
out of town, like talking about

427
00:14:43,410 --> 00:14:45,670
areas like Crawford and McKinley,
like they have septic systems

428
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:45,830
everywhere.

429
00:14:45,830 --> 00:14:47,350
Is there any plan for that?

430
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:50,930
Or is those kind of just being
sitting there where they are for

431
00:14:50,930 --> 00:14:53,290
now until a sewer comes through
or?

432
00:14:53,290 --> 00:14:53,290
Yeah.

433
00:14:53,290 --> 00:14:54,910
If they're not serviced by sewer.

434
00:14:54,910 --> 00:14:55,850
The zoning changes don't impact
them.

435
00:14:55,850 --> 00:14:57,730
So they are still sitting in a
place where they're more almost

436
00:14:57,890 --> 00:15:00,030
considered, you know, country
residential or it's not in this

437
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,360
core area where we want to focus
the majority of our housing

438
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:03,540
development.

439
00:15:03,540 --> 00:15:05,700
Part of this is making sure that

440
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:08,360
we can upgrade existing servicing
and get our infrastructure to a

441
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,380
place where it can support that
multifamily in the established

442
00:15:10,380 --> 00:15:13,480
areas of the city rather than
expanding kind of our sewage

443
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:14,680
service outside of that.

444
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:15,580
I mean, obviously, those are

445
00:15:15,580 --> 00:15:16,340
important projects for the future.

446
00:15:16,340 --> 00:15:18,240
But, you know, the majority of our

447
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,400
housing changes.

448
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,260
The last few years have been

449
00:15:22,260 --> 00:15:23,420
focused on the established
neighborhoods rather than... I

450
00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:25,360
guess it's easier to get
infrastructure and servicing

451
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:26,580
traffic and all that.

452
00:15:26,580 --> 00:15:27,680
guess it's easier to get

453
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:28,720
infrastructure and servicing
traffic and all that.

454
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,100
Yeah, and the long -term goal is
to have the infrastructure that we

455
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:34,240
can maintain more easily, which
works better in a more dense city.

456
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,000
Yeah, no doubt.

457
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,880
We're going to record with Aaron

458
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,220
right after this and get into the
fast track, how he's developed his

459
00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:40,360
drawings and renderings.

460
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,380
Before we do that, can you just

461
00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:43,800
briefly summarize the change
between the RU and the MF?

462
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,660
What is the major difference
between those two designations?

463
00:15:45,660 --> 00:15:47,520
I mean, RU is basically gone now,
right?

464
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,840
RU essentially was our single
family housing typology, whereas

465
00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:52,280
MF is a multifamily housing
typology.

466
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,760
essentially was our single family
housing typology, whereas MF is a

467
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,700
multifamily housing typology.

468
00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:58,040
For the majority of Kelowna's

469
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,260
existence, the majority of our
housing was single family.

470
00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:02,680
And so that RE7 zone kind of
represented a really gentle

471
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,060
transition from that single family
housing to more of a multifamily

472
00:16:05,060 --> 00:16:05,480
typology.

473
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,040
Now that we've started to grow

474
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,880
even more in the last couple of
years, shifting that multifamily

475
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,820
into the core area and keeping
kind of a higher density.

476
00:16:12,820 --> 00:16:15,980
single family out in the suburbs
has become more of the shift since

477
00:16:15,980 --> 00:16:17,700
we can't keep building single
family outward.

478
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:20,220
So essentially like moving from RU
kind of smaller scale single

479
00:16:20,220 --> 00:16:22,700
family infill typology to a more
intense one around our urban

480
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:26,660
centers and within our core area
is just kind of the best way that

481
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,260
we can keep diverse housing
typologies while still having sort

482
00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:27,900
of a smaller scale neighborhood
feel, you know, within the core

483
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:28,000
area.

484
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,860
and then shifting downward as we

485
00:16:29,860 --> 00:16:31,760
go towards the outskirts of the
city.

486
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,600
Yeah, I love it.

487
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:33,930
I love it too.

488
00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:34,790
it too.

489
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:34,870
Yeah.

490
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:35,450
Okay, man.

491
00:16:35,450 --> 00:16:37,290
Well, yeah, I know that was pretty

492
00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:41,390
jam -packed for information, but
yeah, we appreciate you coming on

493
00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:42,130
and sharing that.

494
00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:43,990
And I mean, I guess really the

495
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:47,910
next step for people, if they're
looking at buying an infill lot or

496
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:52,350
they have an existing one, let's
just go to the city, right?

497
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:54,170
Like contact you guys.

498
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:57,910
Don't you have like an AI chat now

499
00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:55,210
as well?
Like a lot of this stuff is

500
00:16:55,210 --> 00:16:55,550
online.

501
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:55,930
Yeah.

502
00:16:55,930 --> 00:17:02,170
If you're looking for infill
eligibility, we have a chat bot on

503
00:17:02,170 --> 00:17:04,589
our website, colonna
ca slash infill.

504
00:17:04,589 --> 00:17:08,369
You can get all the info you need
on infill housing there, on the

505
00:17:08,369 --> 00:17:10,829
fast track program, what lots are
eligible.

506
00:17:10,829 --> 00:17:14,470
And then our planning department
is happy to answer any questions.

507
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:16,390
Planning info at colonna .ca.

508
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:17,609
We always have planners monitoring

509
00:17:17,609 --> 00:17:21,010
that phone line and inbox and
answering questions to the best of

510
00:17:21,010 --> 00:17:21,950
our ability.

511
00:17:21,950 --> 00:17:22,130
Yeah.

512
00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:24,040
You guys are awesome.

513
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,339
You guys are awesome.

514
00:17:25,339 --> 00:17:26,460
Like very good.

515
00:17:26,460 --> 00:17:27,040
Yeah.

516
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,600
You guys are putting on events
with middle housing, middle class,

517
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,940
like just a lot of.

518
00:17:31,940 --> 00:17:34,540
good information that i feel was

519
00:17:34,540 --> 00:17:39,200
kind of smoking mirrors 10 years
ago you know so also yeah and then

520
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,160
when you send an email it gets
answered so yeah i can't say

521
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,640
enough about that's been awesome
good to get good reviews yeah no

522
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,310
we need a lot of housing and we're
really trying to meet that demand

523
00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:54,450
yeah awesome well appreciate your
time yeah thanks for having me on

524
00:17:54,450 --> 00:17:57,230
guys yeah and then when you send
an email it gets answered so yeah

525
00:17:57,370 --> 00:17:59,670
i can't say enough about that's
been awesome to get good reviews

526
00:17:59,670 --> 00:18:03,250
yeah no we need a lot of housing
and we're really trying to meet

527
00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:05,670
that demand yeah awesome well
appreciate your time yeah thanks

528
00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:08,610
for having me on guys Okay, guys,
part two here.

529
00:18:08,610 --> 00:18:12,030
We're going to jump on with Aaron
from Sandbox, S -N -D -B -O -X.

530
00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:12,830
Super cool guy.

531
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:14,410
I think you guys are going to love

532
00:18:14,410 --> 00:18:15,130
this part of the show.

533
00:18:15,130 --> 00:18:16,990
Great energy and yeah, just a good

534
00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:18,030
dude to connect with.

535
00:18:18,030 --> 00:18:19,310
And both of these people that we

536
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:21,470
just talked to are open for
emails.

537
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:24,930
So if you are curious about
something or you want to get more

538
00:18:24,930 --> 00:18:26,330
information, like fire them an
email.

539
00:18:26,330 --> 00:18:27,790
They both answer and they're both
awesome.

540
00:18:27,790 --> 00:18:30,570
Yeah, Aaron's not really on social
media because he works, unlike

541
00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:32,030
Matt and I. Yeah.

542
00:18:32,030 --> 00:18:34,350
That's like the trope of an agent

543
00:18:34,350 --> 00:18:38,230
is the more they post on social
media, usually the less sales are

544
00:18:38,290 --> 00:18:39,570
doing for the end of work times.

545
00:18:39,570 --> 00:18:41,710
I was going to say, man, you're

546
00:18:41,710 --> 00:18:42,670
posting a lot right now.

547
00:18:42,670 --> 00:18:42,910
Yeah.

548
00:18:42,910 --> 00:18:44,950
That works for everybody except
for me, Taylor.

549
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:45,780
Come on.

550
00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:46,340
Yeah.

551
00:18:46,340 --> 00:18:46,720
Yeah.

552
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:46,920
Okay.

553
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:47,800
Enjoy part two, guys.

554
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,340
Okay, welcome to the show, Aaron

555
00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:49,480
Whalen.

556
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,300
How are you, man?

557
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:51,640
Good, thank you.

558
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:52,680
Yeah, thanks for coming.

559
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,560
So I met you, or watched your
presentation at a middle housing

560
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,880
event put on by City of Kelowna,
and I thought your presentation

561
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:57,400
was incredibly awesome.

562
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,740
Renderings were super cool and

563
00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:02,120
just valuable information that we
could take that and inform our

564
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:02,360
listener.

565
00:19:02,360 --> 00:18:51,540
Do you want to give us kind of a

566
00:18:51,540 --> 00:18:53,880
real high -level summary of who
you are, what you're doing, and go

567
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,340
from there?
Yeah, my name is Aaron Whalen.

568
00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:56,960
Ontario and went to school in
Toronto for architecture.

569
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,300
I started designing custom homes
in the Muskoka area, some pretty

570
00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:02,120
high -end stuff early on in my
career.

571
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:08,020
And then eventually that moved me
out west to pursue more of an

572
00:19:08,020 --> 00:19:08,160
active lifestyle.

573
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,740
I started working for larger

574
00:19:09,740 --> 00:19:12,700
firms, doing everything from
apartment housing to hospitals,

575
00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:14,040
airports, everything in the
middle.

576
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:14,760
And I've spent the last 10 years.

577
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:15,980
In Kelowna, getting to know the

578
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:18,400
city, getting to know the
province, I've kind of taken all

579
00:19:18,620 --> 00:19:20,800
that experience and synthesized it
into this so far one -man studio

580
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,900
sandbox, just focusing on kind of
middle housing.

581
00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:24,800
So everything in between the
apartment housing and the custom

582
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,340
family homes, try to provide a bit
of an answer to the housing crisis

583
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,840
in Kelowna and the province that
we're facing right now.

584
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,790
And hopefully that'll be more like
explorative, innovative forms of

585
00:19:33,790 --> 00:19:34,090
housing.

586
00:19:34,090 --> 00:19:35,990
But so far, it's only about a year

587
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:36,570
into the... journey.

588
00:19:36,730 --> 00:19:38,590
So yeah, lots of changes, lots of

589
00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:38,770
new stuff.

590
00:19:38,770 --> 00:19:38,870
Yeah.

591
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:41,750
How did you know that that was the
niche, like the middle housing

592
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:45,270
infill?
Did you just see that opportunity?

593
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:49,910
Or I mean, we can talk about this
right away too, is the fast track

594
00:19:52,990 --> 00:19:54,450
system in Kelowna, which is...

595
00:19:54,650 --> 00:19:55,630
essentially what this podcast is

596
00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:56,070
based around.

597
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:57,490
You were one of the winners of

598
00:19:57,490 --> 00:19:57,910
that program.

599
00:19:57,910 --> 00:20:00,450
So is that what was the catalyst

600
00:20:00,450 --> 00:20:03,150
for you to start this?
It's a great question.

601
00:20:03,150 --> 00:20:07,050
Yes, it was an offspring of the
competition back in 2021.

602
00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:11,330
I did follow the original
competition, which would have been

603
00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:12,230
1 .0.

604
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:14,010
The one that I was part of was the

605
00:20:14,010 --> 00:20:15,730
2 .0 put on by the city of
Kelowna.

606
00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:18,930
But I watched very closely what
happened to the first one and all

607
00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:20,530
of the infill development that
happened.

608
00:20:20,530 --> 00:20:28,220
in the city as a result of that it
was crazy it just caught like

609
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:30,940
wildfire there's infills popping
up everywhere like very close to

610
00:20:30,940 --> 00:20:35,000
where i live downtown and you know
some of them are great some of

611
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,200
them maybe not so much like i
think there was some room for

612
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:45,420
improvement and yeah i really
wanted to give the competition a

613
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,780
solid go just to see if i could
throw something in the mix that

614
00:20:49,940 --> 00:20:52,000
was a little bit different came
second place which is great

615
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,320
Something about that middle
housing scale that's very

616
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:59,160
intimate, but you can also make a
large impact on the community

617
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,420
through it.

618
00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:01,860
It's not just an apartment

619
00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:04,320
building or a tower that takes two
plus years to build.

620
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,460
These things are designed and
built within a year.

621
00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:09,180
So you can make an impact very
quickly.

622
00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:12,180
And I think that's where I really
enjoy architecture is being able

623
00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:13,220
to make community impact.

624
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:16,520
So it's been a good go as a result

625
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:17,080
of the competition.

626
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:17,740
That's awesome.

627
00:21:17,740 --> 00:21:20,030
So what did you design for the
competition?

628
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:21,650
Did you design a fourplex?
Yeah.

629
00:21:21,970 --> 00:21:23,870
So the original competition was
using the original zoning bylaw.

630
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:27,530
Like we just recently went through
a kind of a provincial change of

631
00:21:27,530 --> 00:21:27,950
bylaws and densities.

632
00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:28,070
Yeah.

633
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:29,670
So it really shook things up quite
a bit.

634
00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:32,960
That was post competition, right?
So city of Kelowna was trying to

635
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,180
be, and they were very
progressive, you know, putting on

636
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:35,680
the competition.

637
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,400
And I think it was extremely

638
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:37,480
successful.

639
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:38,780
And the province almost threw a

640
00:21:38,940 --> 00:21:43,540
wrench in the whole thing by, you
know, increasing the density and

641
00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:47,040
kind of maybe relaxing some of the
setbacks.

642
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,880
But yeah, originally it was a four
unit infill and it was mainly

643
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,120
around, you know, trying to create
diversity and resilience, you

644
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:55,760
know, with a bit of an
environmental flavor behind it,

645
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,120
all with affordability on mine.

646
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:57,220
Right.

647
00:21:57,220 --> 00:22:00,040
So I approached it in a way where.

648
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,980
Instead of doing like replicable

649
00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:04,460
units, I would have four different
sizes catering to a different

650
00:22:04,460 --> 00:22:08,080
audience to try to bring together
like multi -generational living.

651
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,940
That was kind of the premise of it
all.

652
00:22:09,940 --> 00:22:12,420
And, you know, we won the
competition, but then we're like

653
00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:14,800
tasked to redesign it to take
advantage of some of those

654
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:15,320
provincial mandates.

655
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,840
So we tried to keep the theme the

656
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,380
same, but, you know, maybe bump
some of the density.

657
00:22:22,380 --> 00:22:24,200
And yeah, now there's a five unit
version too.

658
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,920
as a result of that yeah the
original contest was this is the

659
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:33,960
lot size you guys go for it like
that was essentially the parameter

660
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,720
yeah more or less they gave us
like you know setbacks max

661
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,940
coverage parking you know
requirements kind of the normal

662
00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:45,140
stuff that you would need to
design an infill you know with a

663
00:22:45,140 --> 00:22:48,300
bit of relaxation but more or less
you know follow these rules and

664
00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:51,440
try to create something
interesting what's the size of the

665
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,440
lot you guys used the original
contest was this is the lot size

666
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,670
you guys go for it like that was
essentially the parameter more or

667
00:22:57,670 --> 00:23:00,490
less they gave us like you know
setbacks max coverage parking you

668
00:23:00,490 --> 00:23:05,190
know requirements kind of the
normal stuff that you would need

669
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:10,290
to design an infill you know with
a bit of relaxation but more or

670
00:23:10,290 --> 00:23:14,210
less you know follow these rules
and try to create something

671
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:17,650
interesting the size of the lot
you guys used Yeah, it was a 21

672
00:23:17,650 --> 00:23:20,630
meter wide by 38 meter deep
parcel, flat, you know, non

673
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:20,970
laneway loaded.

674
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:22,250
So, you know, vehicular access has

675
00:23:22,250 --> 00:23:25,000
to come from the street.

676
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,220
And that was basically covering

677
00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:29,020
off the majority of lots in
Kelowna that the first

678
00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:30,260
competition, you know, didn't
cover.

679
00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:34,280
That was all specific to laneway
lots in that kind of downtown core

680
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:34,700
areas.

681
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:38,900
This was just, you know, more of

682
00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:39,280
those suburban.

683
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,120
Rutland lots and even in Lower

684
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,040
Mission, Glenmore, there's tens of
thousands of lots.

685
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,620
Can you give a brief summary of
the fast track as well in terms of

686
00:23:48,620 --> 00:23:54,050
like, you give a brief summary of
the fast track as well in terms of

687
00:23:54,050 --> 00:23:57,830
like, if somebody's listening to
this and they're like, hey, that's

688
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:58,930
my lot.

689
00:23:58,930 --> 00:24:01,190
I want to do some infill.

690
00:24:01,190 --> 00:24:02,430
What do they do?
Now essentially there's these

691
00:24:02,530 --> 00:24:05,770
designs that you and some other
architects have provided to the

692
00:24:05,770 --> 00:24:10,210
city and the city's put their
stamp of approval on it and says

693
00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:14,170
anyone can come in and essentially
do a BP, DP and rock and roll.

694
00:24:14,250 --> 00:24:17,090
incredibly fast but they have to
use your specific approved design

695
00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:20,580
right yeah that's right so there
are four designs or four different

696
00:24:20,580 --> 00:24:25,340
designers as part of this which is
is really interesting because

697
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:28,500
after you know we found out we had
won and it was moving forward to

698
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:33,580
this fast track program i had
actually reached out to the other

699
00:24:33,580 --> 00:24:36,460
designers to create a bit of a
conversation around like hey let's

700
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:39,420
work together let's not try to
that's right so there are four

701
00:24:39,420 --> 00:24:42,380
designs or four different
designers as part of this which is

702
00:24:42,380 --> 00:24:45,920
is really interesting because
after you know we found out we had

703
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:24,660
won and it was moving forward to
this fast track program i had

704
00:24:24,660 --> 00:24:28,240
actually reached out to the other
designers to create a bit of a

705
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,420
conversation around like hey let's
work together let's not try to

706
00:24:31,420 --> 00:24:35,860
compete against each other let's
try to do this together so during

707
00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:38,700
that process we became pretty good
friends and there was a lot of

708
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:41,800
learning there and we kind of
helped tailor that fast track

709
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,740
program at least from the designer
side as best we could so

710
00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:51,980
essentially we tried to price them
all the same and we tried to have

711
00:24:51,980 --> 00:24:57,820
the same amount of information in
each package so somebody from the

712
00:24:57,820 --> 00:25:00,280
public could you know choose it
based on the design and not, you

713
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,380
know, what's included in that
package or, you know, what's

714
00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:05,760
cheaper or et cetera.

715
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,100
So essentially you would come to

716
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:11,080
any of the designers and there's a
pre -approved development permit

717
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,900
and building permit ready to go.

718
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:13,880
And that includes like structural

719
00:25:14,380 --> 00:25:16,500
design, energy modeling,
landscape, all of the requirements

720
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,780
that you would need that usually
take months of work.

721
00:25:20,780 --> 00:25:21,960
It's kind of ready to go.

722
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,400
The only thing we would have to do

723
00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:23,400
is get a survey of the lot, adapt
the site plan to it, and then just

724
00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:26,540
kind of put our seal of approval
on it for the city.

725
00:25:26,540 --> 00:25:28,800
They already trust us and the
package is ready to go.

726
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:28,960
Awesome.

727
00:25:29,060 --> 00:25:31,840
So do you know, has anyone used

728
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,280
your design yet?
Do you know?

729
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,140
They haven't.

730
00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:35,540
I've had a lot of phone calls.

731
00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:36,640
It was a bit slow.

732
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,520
I think, you know, the industry as

733
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:44,030
a whole has been a bit rattled
with interest rates and land

734
00:25:44,030 --> 00:25:49,550
prices are just so high, right?
Part of the success in the first

735
00:25:49,550 --> 00:25:54,790
go around was just the land prices
were low and interest rates were

736
00:25:54,790 --> 00:25:55,090
low, right?
Yeah.

737
00:25:55,090 --> 00:25:58,470
I think now we're getting a lot of
calls and a lot of interested

738
00:25:58,470 --> 00:26:00,690
people, but yeah, no one's really
like 100 % jumped on.

739
00:26:00,690 --> 00:26:03,530
I think it's cool that you guys
collectively have kind of...

740
00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:07,710
almost worked yourself out of a
job just in terms of like future

741
00:26:07,710 --> 00:25:50,530
so it's not like people need to
now pay geotopo architect

742
00:25:50,530 --> 00:25:55,090
engineers over and over and over
again to do essentially the same

743
00:25:55,090 --> 00:25:58,030
thing right like that fee is
bundled up in one application and

744
00:25:58,030 --> 00:26:00,690
that's paid to mostly the city of
colonna now like that's why they

745
00:26:00,690 --> 00:26:05,190
put on this contest is that kind
of right like is it about a 15 000

746
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:08,750
application or something or yeah
all of the four unit designs are

747
00:26:08,750 --> 00:26:11,800
think it's cool that you guys
collectively have kind of...

748
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,820
almost worked yourself out of a
job just in terms of like future

749
00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:17,900
so it's not like people need to
now pay geotopo architect

750
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:22,140
engineers over and over and over
again to do essentially the same

751
00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:26,300
thing right like that fee is
bundled up in one application and

752
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:28,460
that's paid to mostly the city of
colonna now like that's why they

753
00:26:28,460 --> 00:26:33,060
put on this contest is that kind
of right like is it about a 15 000

754
00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:36,710
application or something or all of
the four unit designs are priced

755
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:40,730
at 15 ,000, which includes all of
the consulting work and everything

756
00:26:40,730 --> 00:26:42,490
kind of needed to make that
application.

757
00:26:42,490 --> 00:26:45,250
I would have to contact energy
modeling and structural just to

758
00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:47,050
get people updated addresses.

759
00:26:47,050 --> 00:26:50,070
And I have to do the site plan,

760
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:54,450
but yeah, you're saving quite a
bit of money.

761
00:26:54,450 --> 00:26:57,990
Like the soft costs alone are
usually probably 50 plus thousand

762
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:59,770
dollars for all of that.

763
00:26:59,770 --> 00:27:01,520
And you're saving a considerable

764
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,040
amount of money and you're getting
it quick.

765
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:03,180
Right.

766
00:27:03,180 --> 00:27:05,240
So I think, you know, Generally,

767
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,640
the response we've gotten so far
is that everyone loves the

768
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,840
rendering, loves the imagery.

769
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:09,880
Most people who aren't developers

770
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,280
and are doing this for themselves
want to make floor plan tweaks and

771
00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:15,700
kind of cater it for their own
use, which is, I guess, not

772
00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:15,800
surprising.

773
00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:17,980
But it's challenging when you're

774
00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:20,340
trying to maintain the fast track
turnaround time, but also adding

775
00:27:20,340 --> 00:27:20,820
extra units.

776
00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:22,920
Do you ever just want to be a

777
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,760
smart ass and be like, yeah, no,
absolutely.

778
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,740
So if you just use a slow track
program, we can start from square

779
00:27:30,740 --> 00:27:30,980
one.

780
00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:31,740
Yeah, that's pretty funny.

781
00:27:31,740 --> 00:27:33,600
If anyone hasn't seen the
renderings, they're beautiful.

782
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,700
You guys have done a pretty cool
job.

783
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:36,340
pretty job.

784
00:27:36,340 --> 00:27:37,540
As a realtor, how do I know what

785
00:27:37,540 --> 00:27:39,860
lot would apply for?
Just any lot that's...

786
00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:43,700
Would you say 21 by 38 meters?
Yeah, this is a really good

787
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:47,650
question because most of the
people who ask me have a lot that

788
00:27:47,650 --> 00:27:48,150
doesn't conform.

789
00:27:48,150 --> 00:27:50,030
And we're finding that depth is a

790
00:27:50,030 --> 00:27:50,670
really big one.

791
00:27:50,670 --> 00:27:55,210
And that 38 meters deep, at least

792
00:27:55,210 --> 00:27:56,910
for mosaic, which would be
sandbox, it's pretty like pivotal.

793
00:27:56,910 --> 00:27:58,490
And I also represent Miguel out of
Mexico.

794
00:27:58,490 --> 00:28:01,370
who was the first place winner, is
Project Maple Terraces.

795
00:28:01,370 --> 00:28:04,430
And he and I have a bit of an
arrangement so I can facilitate

796
00:28:04,430 --> 00:28:07,110
some of the phone calls and
interest here locally.

797
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:07,210
Nice.

798
00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:09,190
But, you know, between his and two

799
00:28:09,190 --> 00:27:43,440
by two architectures design on the
coast, I think they have a bit

800
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,970
more flexibility with lot size,
whereas I really pigeonholed

801
00:27:45,970 --> 00:27:48,150
myself into a 21 by 38 meter size.

802
00:27:48,150 --> 00:27:48,750
But yeah, so.

803
00:27:48,750 --> 00:27:55,210
I've had real estate agents ask,
and I've given them a bit of a cut

804
00:27:55,210 --> 00:27:56,710
sheet just of, you know, this is
the size.

805
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:58,270
These are the things to watch out
for.

806
00:27:58,270 --> 00:28:01,370
So you want to try to get
something that's relatively flat,

807
00:28:01,370 --> 00:28:03,410
that doesn't have any easements
through it.

808
00:28:03,410 --> 00:28:05,830
Hydro lines are usually a big one,
making sure that hydro lines

809
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:07,110
aren't encroaching the property.

810
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:08,970
Will it work on a corner lot?

811
00:28:08,970 --> 00:28:12,030
Yes, it will work on a corner lot.

812
00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:14,680
Whether the city of Kelowna will

813
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,800
see it as a fast track approved
design is yet to be determined,

814
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,300
but I am quite confident that
Mosaic would be a great.

815
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:22,120
corner lot candidate.

816
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:23,920
Typically the corner lots are a

817
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,080
little bit narrower, but you don't
have to provide that like drive

818
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,340
aisle off the street for garage
access.

819
00:28:28,340 --> 00:28:31,560
You can just use the side street
and be perfect.

820
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:32,940
use side street be perfect.

821
00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:33,140
Yeah.

822
00:28:33,260 --> 00:28:33,300
Interesting.

823
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:35,040
I'm just wondering, so like, would

824
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,940
you be okay if a realtor like just
advertise your design as the

825
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,400
potential to go here?
Would the city be okay with that

826
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:42,880
or?
Absolutely.

827
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,940
I think that's kind of what it's
for.

828
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:48,540
that's kind of what it's for.

829
00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:50,380
It's, you know, it's to show

830
00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:54,980
potential and if it helps sell a
project going that it works like.

831
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:57,040
Why not?
Like that's the whole point of

832
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:57,740
this.

833
00:28:57,740 --> 00:29:01,640
I'd love to see as many of them as

834
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,280
I can in Kelowna.

835
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,360
It's awesome because like I myself

836
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,560
have a few of these listings
currently and also coming up and

837
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,080
I'm like, man, you know, like you
take the drone photos to advertise

838
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:23,180
and then like, I don't want to go
pay a developer or go to pay a

839
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,300
designer.

840
00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:26,160
I always want you to do a design

841
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,340
that nobody's going to use.

842
00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:30,280
But if you have one of these

843
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,240
already ready to go, that helps
you too.

844
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,060
I feel like that would be
extraordinarily helpful for me and

845
00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:38,580
also all the other agents working.

846
00:29:38,580 --> 00:29:38,720
Yeah.

847
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:38,980
Yeah, absolutely.

848
00:29:38,980 --> 00:29:41,860
Is it in the GIS or like where

849
00:29:41,860 --> 00:29:44,680
city of Kelowna like flags those
automatically now?

850
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,140
Like, Hey, this is fast track
applicable.

851
00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:48,300
They have an internal database
with those.

852
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:53,420
I'm not sure if it's public
knowledge of which lots qualify,

853
00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:58,470
but I think they're kind of chat
bot filters them out for you.

854
00:29:58,470 --> 00:30:02,950
So if you punch in your address,
it'll give you a yes or no. Okay.

855
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:05,590
I do feel like the chat bot is a
bit misleading.

856
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:07,930
Like AI, I'll do that.

857
00:30:08,550 --> 00:30:09,930
Yeah, well, I think it

858
00:30:09,930 --> 00:30:12,170
generalizes, right?
It's not as smart as they would

859
00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:13,210
hope it would be.

860
00:30:13,210 --> 00:30:14,910
Because I think you can adapt

861
00:30:14,910 --> 00:30:19,190
these designs to lots that are
maybe just outside the norm.

862
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:24,370
And I think it's really up to the
designer to work with the city of

863
00:30:24,370 --> 00:30:25,210
Kelowna to affirm that the design
complies.

864
00:30:25,210 --> 00:30:26,910
It's not a problem with the
building code.

865
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:28,740
It should be accelerated, right?
Yeah.

866
00:30:28,740 --> 00:30:31,000
does like the design that maybe
gets a no from the chatbot to

867
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,260
still contact the designer because
it still might work.

868
00:30:33,260 --> 00:30:35,080
because it still might work.

869
00:30:35,260 --> 00:30:36,700
So for myself and any agents

870
00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:40,660
listening or any people that are
curious about their own house,

871
00:30:41,020 --> 00:30:44,000
what's the best way to find out
like the chatbot or like what

872
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,500
about firing you an email?
You're going to get absolutely

873
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:47,920
inundated with all of our
listeners.

874
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,460
I'm thinking thousands.

875
00:30:49,460 --> 00:30:51,580
You'll have to hire an assistant

876
00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:54,300
just to reply to these emails.

877
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:55,640
Create my own chatbot.

878
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:56,340
Yeah.

879
00:30:56,340 --> 00:30:56,660
Sandbot.

880
00:30:56,660 --> 00:30:59,100
Please send me an email.

881
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:00,360
I love like the early.

882
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,760
phase of you know exploring like
will it work you know that's kind

883
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,120
of exciting time and it doesn't
take long like it might be five

884
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,480
minutes out of my day which is not
a lot but the chatbot on the city

885
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,520
of Kelowna is also very effective
and I think they've got some

886
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,100
talented engineers behind that so
it's a very instantaneous yes or

887
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:19,840
no I can just see Matt having like
a three hour long conversation

888
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,320
with the chatbot just back and
forth what about this lot no what

889
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,580
about this I'd really appreciate
it if we could meet for coffee

890
00:31:24,580 --> 00:31:27,320
yeah yeah that's can just see Matt
having like a three hour long

891
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,680
conversation with the chatbot just
back and forth about this lot no

892
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,360
what about this I'd really
appreciate it if we could meet for

893
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,880
coffee yeah yeah What do you mean
the files are in the computer?

894
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,260
What are the next steps for
FastTrack?

895
00:31:37,260 --> 00:31:39,160
Is there going to be a FastTrack 3
.0?

896
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:39,600
What's next?
What's on the horizon?

897
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:40,520
I don't know.

898
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:41,600
How much did the city guys tell

899
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,460
you?
They're going to try to expand

900
00:31:42,460 --> 00:31:42,980
this FastTrack library.

901
00:31:42,980 --> 00:31:44,320
I don't think that's private news.

902
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,740
The idea is to create a robust
library so it's not just for

903
00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:47,900
designs.

904
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,740
20, 30, 50, these designs could be

905
00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:51,960
applied to Kelowna, hopefully
other municipalities, Vernon,

906
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,790
Penticton, stuff like that would
be great.

907
00:31:54,790 --> 00:31:57,550
But yeah, I think that is coming
pretty soon.

908
00:31:57,550 --> 00:32:00,910
I think the city of Kelowna is
actively trying to sort out what

909
00:32:00,910 --> 00:32:03,270
the next wave will look like.

910
00:32:03,270 --> 00:32:04,950
Maybe they're after like different

911
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:05,270
size lots.

912
00:32:05,270 --> 00:32:07,530
Maybe they're opening it up to,

913
00:32:07,530 --> 00:32:09,170
you know, whatever design,
whatever shape a lot.

914
00:32:09,170 --> 00:32:11,830
If it's a great design that they
feel comfortable with, then maybe

915
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:12,710
they just offer it.

916
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:13,630
Wave is a perfect description for

917
00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:14,170
it.

918
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:16,930
I do feel like this is the next

919
00:32:16,930 --> 00:32:21,360
big thing for our city to densify
as well as just grow and become

920
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,840
like a more beautiful place to
live in because some of these

921
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,380
designs are awesome, but it's such
a daunting task for, you know.

922
00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:32,920
Us common folk to walk up to a lot
and be like, huh, what are we

923
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,080
going to do here?
And yeah, you're right.

924
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,160
The soft costs are like
extraordinarily high to even get

925
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,260
to the point to see if it's worth
going after.

926
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:43,980
One cool connection.

927
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,380
So we interviewed Steven Jagger

928
00:32:47,380 --> 00:32:48,840
off of Addy probably about 15
episodes ago.

929
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,200
And, you know, speaking with him.

930
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,600
They're actually like testing out

931
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,860
the fast track and buying it and
funding it from Addy.

932
00:32:53,860 --> 00:32:56,440
So not only is it like the fast
track program, but it's funded

933
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:56,900
from their platform.

934
00:32:56,900 --> 00:32:58,380
So I could see like that just like

935
00:32:58,380 --> 00:33:00,080
catching on fire, right?
If these buildings going up and

936
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,080
being financed, if it works, I
think the other thing to point out

937
00:33:04,540 --> 00:33:06,820
that we haven't spoke about, which
could be a great opportunity is

938
00:33:06,820 --> 00:33:13,800
like, if these are purpose built
rentals over, you know.

939
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,260
five units and above, like MLI
Select is a perfect fit for this.

940
00:33:17,260 --> 00:33:19,880
So, you know, we're going to
actually speak about that in a

941
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,920
couple episodes, but up to 50
-year amortizations, really good

942
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:22,040
rates.

943
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,520
So you said five units and above.

944
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:23,660
rates.

945
00:33:23,660 --> 00:33:25,000
So you said five units and above.

946
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,620
Is there a design for five units
and above or are they all just

947
00:33:28,620 --> 00:33:29,640
four units?
Yeah.

948
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,080
So when we were given the option
to redesign it for the new

949
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,660
provincial mandates, we made sure
that there was a five -unit option

950
00:33:36,660 --> 00:33:38,160
to take advantage of MLI Select.

951
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:39,340
which is very strategic.

952
00:33:39,340 --> 00:33:41,660
I do know Steven and I know the
Addy platform quite well.

953
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:34,760
We've got a project going up,
hopefully shortly in the new year

954
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:35,100
here.

955
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:36,120
And it's through the Addy

956
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:36,660
platform.

957
00:33:36,660 --> 00:33:37,720
It's on Ethel Street.

958
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,860
It's actually already gone through
the first kind of phase of the

959
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:41,360
Addy investment.

960
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:42,380
So that project should be going up

961
00:33:42,380 --> 00:33:43,080
soon.

962
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,690
And I love what they're doing.

963
00:33:46,690 --> 00:33:52,950
It's a great way to get real
estate and projects going.

964
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:54,150
Yeah, absolutely.

965
00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:55,390
So just to linger on this, because

966
00:33:55,390 --> 00:33:58,370
I know a lot of lots now are zoned
for six units in Kelowna.

967
00:33:58,370 --> 00:34:04,250
Is there going to be a six unit?
Can you see Fast Track 3 .0

968
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:07,790
including a six unit?
Can yours go to six, sir?

969
00:34:07,790 --> 00:34:11,310
Yeah, well, I'm hoping that when
the city opens up this next wave,

970
00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:16,600
actually I already have a six unit
ready to go.

971
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:17,199
Nice.

972
00:34:17,540 --> 00:34:18,760
It's very different.

973
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,860
I think with Sandbox, I'm trying
to push the boundaries a little

974
00:34:21,860 --> 00:34:22,179
bit.

975
00:34:22,179 --> 00:34:24,520
designs maybe a bit more

976
00:34:24,780 --> 00:34:24,860
adventurous.

977
00:34:24,860 --> 00:34:26,760
And I think, you know, some people

978
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,719
love it, some people might not so
much, but I do think that six

979
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:31,880
units is very challenging.

980
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,639
The livability of it is tricky,

981
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,600
right?
And if you want to really follow

982
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,310
the zoning and have six parking
stalls with six units, you know,

983
00:34:39,310 --> 00:34:40,550
that's a lot of cars.

984
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:43,150
Yeah, it must be like mostly road

985
00:34:43,150 --> 00:34:43,530
on the lot.

986
00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:44,489
I know, it's very challenging.

987
00:34:44,489 --> 00:34:48,190
So we have to think of like new
creative ways of tackling the

988
00:34:48,190 --> 00:34:48,330
vehicle.

989
00:34:48,330 --> 00:34:48,870
troubles, right?

990
00:34:48,870 --> 00:34:51,650
right?
And try to make it, you know,

991
00:34:51,650 --> 00:34:53,550
livable and not just a parking
lot, like you say.

992
00:34:53,550 --> 00:34:54,310
Yeah, yeah.

993
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:56,810
I feel like you guys are really

994
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:58,710
ahead of the curve on this.

995
00:34:58,710 --> 00:35:00,310
You guys being Sandbox and City of

996
00:35:00,670 --> 00:35:01,870
Kelowna, because yeah, MLI
Select's been around for a long

997
00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:05,730
time, but as well as, you know,
there's insured mortgage up to 90

998
00:35:05,730 --> 00:35:09,150
% loan to value on exactly what
you guys are doing is like infill

999
00:35:09,330 --> 00:35:10,250
up to four units.

1000
00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:12,810
So there wasn't that a month ago.

1001
00:35:12,810 --> 00:35:14,750
Really, these are... much more
attractive financing terms and

1002
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,320
people are able to take advantage
of that.

1003
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,380
It's already set up.

1004
00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:19,700
You have the design, financing's

1005
00:35:19,820 --> 00:35:19,880
there.

1006
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,240
It's just about, you know, pulling

1007
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,380
the trigger on it.

1008
00:35:22,380 --> 00:35:24,620
So kudos to you and City of

1009
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:26,340
Kelowna for evolutionary state of
mind.

1010
00:35:26,340 --> 00:35:26,940
Yeah, thank you.

1011
00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:27,260
mind.

1012
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:27,940
Yeah, thank you.

1013
00:35:27,940 --> 00:35:29,120
Yeah, trying our best.

1014
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,520
I think, you know, if you kind of
look beyond Kelowna, like what the

1015
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,600
provincial, you know,
standardization designs look like,

1016
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,400
I think there's a lot of
challenges there.

1017
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,210
I don't think those designs, like
as beautiful as they are, I don't

1018
00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:41,630
think they work.

1019
00:35:41,630 --> 00:35:43,690
I think what Kelowna is doing is

1020
00:35:43,950 --> 00:35:45,550
something really amazing where all
the projects that they're

1021
00:35:45,550 --> 00:35:46,290
marketing, they all work.

1022
00:35:46,290 --> 00:35:48,090
So it's pretty cool.

1023
00:35:48,090 --> 00:35:51,590
Yeah, How can we support you or
how can people get in contact?

1024
00:35:51,590 --> 00:35:50,730
Do you follow you, Instagram,
whatever?

1025
00:35:50,730 --> 00:35:53,050
Like if people are interested in
your business and fast track

1026
00:35:53,050 --> 00:35:54,870
program and your designs, how can
we find out more about you?

1027
00:35:55,590 --> 00:35:58,950
I'm pretty quiet on social media
and LinkedIn and all the platforms

1028
00:35:58,950 --> 00:36:01,610
because I'm usually producing
work, pretty quiet on social media

1029
00:36:01,610 --> 00:36:03,710
and LinkedIn and all the platforms
because I'm usually producing

1030
00:36:03,710 --> 00:36:04,430
work, but...

1031
00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:06,330
Wait, what are you saying?

1032
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:08,710
You're saying Matt and I don't
work?

1033
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:09,290
You're absolutely right.

1034
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:10,910
These things, there's so much work

1035
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:14,890
that goes into like hundreds and
hundreds of hours of just me

1036
00:36:14,890 --> 00:36:15,770
clicking buttons.

1037
00:36:15,770 --> 00:36:18,410
So I'm really hoping to like have

1038
00:36:18,690 --> 00:36:20,670
a bit of, you know, social media
presence eventually.

1039
00:36:20,670 --> 00:36:24,830
But I do have an Instagram
account, Sandbox, S -N -D -B -O

1040
00:36:24,830 --> 00:36:24,990
-X.

1041
00:36:24,990 --> 00:36:26,590
Yeah, you can find my website,

1042
00:36:26,590 --> 00:36:28,390
which will hopefully have more
than one project on it soon.

1043
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:32,390
Email Aaron at Sandbox, S -N -D -B
-O -X dot C -A.

1044
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:32,490
Awesome.

1045
00:36:32,490 --> 00:36:33,190
It's probably the easiest way.

1046
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:34,350
probably the easiest way.

1047
00:36:34,350 --> 00:36:36,010
You can find the contact on the

1048
00:36:36,010 --> 00:36:38,150
City of Kelowna website too, under
the Kelowna

1049
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:38,750
ca slash info.

1050
00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:39,090
Cool.

1051
00:36:39,090 --> 00:36:40,510
One other question before we let
you go.

1052
00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:42,190
Cost to build, high level, like
per square foot.

1053
00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:44,050
What are people looking at for
your design?

1054
00:36:44,050 --> 00:36:45,490
We've done some cost estimating.

1055
00:36:45,490 --> 00:36:46,270
done some cost estimating.

1056
00:36:46,270 --> 00:36:50,870
I think like a pretty baseline
spec, meaning like, you know,

1057
00:36:50,970 --> 00:36:51,750
hardy board siding and...

1058
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:52,590
Vinyl flooring, nothing crazy.

1059
00:36:52,590 --> 00:36:56,800
You're probably looking at $280,
$285 a square foot.

1060
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,600
Obviously, if you start wanting to
bump those finishes, you're

1061
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,220
probably in the lowest threes,
like $315, $325 a square foot bill

1062
00:37:01,220 --> 00:37:01,440
costs.

1063
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,660
So I think it's very reasonable

1064
00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:05,320
and competitive, and it's not that
scary.

1065
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,260
And the units aren't so large that
that number doesn't balloon,

1066
00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:11,920
right?
It's very strategic to try to keep

1067
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,080
the unit sizes small enough so the
cost per square footage cost

1068
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,980
doesn't blow the mortgage out of
the water for first -time

1069
00:37:18,980 --> 00:37:19,760
homebuyers and people looking to
downsize.

1070
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:19,940
Yeah.

1071
00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:20,460
Cool, man.

1072
00:37:20,460 --> 00:37:21,200
Well, yeah.

1073
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,100
That's awesome.

1074
00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:25,360
Really appreciate everything
you're doing in the city, and

1075
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,320
thanks for your time coming on the
show.

1076
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:27,520
Yeah.

1077
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,220
Thanks so much for reaching out.

1078
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:30,620
It's always fun to chat about
this.

1079
00:37:30,620 --> 00:37:33,120
And I will be firing you an email
about this kind of thing.

1080
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:33,840
Oh, please do.

1081
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,160
Your drawing is going to be posted

1082
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,700
on like nine of Matt's listings
now, whether it's applicable or

1083
00:37:37,780 --> 00:37:38,040
not.

1084
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,040
or not.

1085
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,420
You're not on social media now,
but you will be in about a week or

1086
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:42,620
so.

1087
00:37:42,620 --> 00:37:43,880
Better hire that chatbot soon.

1088
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,340
All right, Aaron, have a great
day, man.

1089
00:37:46,340 --> 00:37:47,340
Thanks a lot.

1090
00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:48,230
Thanks, guys.