96: 15 Things to Know When Building or Renovating a Home with Froese & Co.'s Troy Froese

Taylor Atkinson: Welcome back to the Columbia Real Estate Podcast. I'm your mortgage broker host, Taylor Atkinson.

Matt Glen: And I'm your real estate agent host, Matt Glenn. What's happening today, Taylor? What's up? What's down?

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Good question. Do you have any stocks right now? You you probably had a heart attack for about two days, and now you're you're fine. Everything's fine.

Matt Glen: Well, like, you get a little surge. Like, we're recording this what day is this? Wednesday, the ninth at one thirty in the afternoon. So this morning, there was a huge bump because of another tariff announcement, which I don't think affected Canada. I think we still have all the same tariffs.
But there's markets just go crazy. So, like, is now a time to sell when it's on a bit of a high? Like, who knows what is going on here?

Taylor Atkinson: You definitely don't listen to us. If you have the stocks to buy and sell. But I guess, let's rewind this about a week. Right? A week ago, Trump basically imposed tariffs globally on a global scale to an absolute ton of countries.
And it was exposed, I guess, the way he was calculating the tariffs were not correct. Right? It was just basically based on trade deficit and then used the multiplier and used, like, the higher of the two. So some countries were getting absolutely hammered. Vietnam, I think it was, like, a forty nine percent tariff.
Which is insane. So Shudu, Phil Knight Nike book, whoever's hasn't read it. It's a great book. But it outlined in that book a couple times that they had to, like, move countries and use it, like, over in Japan and then had to, like, move it into, like, Southeast Asian, like because of these type of international agreements. But, I mean, Nike, it gets a ton of their materials and assembly from Vietnam.
So, like, Nike's stock just absolutely, like, plummeted. Right? Like a lot of other stocks, but because of this, because of those imposed tariffs. And then today, you know, Trump has, I guess, repositioned some of those tariffs and is coming to some other agreement. So it's just like the volatility is impossible to keep up with in this market.

Matt Glen: The goal is to onshore jobs to the US. But, like, who's gonna spend hundreds of millions or not billions of dollars on a factory when the things change every single day? And not to mention, like, you're kinda selecting for, like, not the greatest jobs to come back. I think a lot of people are kinda realizing, like, globalization is probably not entirely the worst thing you know, in this whole list.

Taylor Atkinson: I think in the long term, if it was like a really subtle plan that was like, you know, spanned over fifty years to bring jobs back to America, it's not like the worst strategy, but to do it like this and just one foul swoop is insanity.

Matt Glen: As of today, he increased tariffs to China to a hundred and twenty five percent. Like, you just gotta think of a business like Amazon or Walmart. Like, I don't know what it is, but it kinda be, like, at least seventy five percent of those everything in both of those places comes from China. Yeah. So, like, that is a massive amount.
Like, if everything's doubled one and a half times or one and a quarter times is expensive.

Taylor Atkinson: Well, yeah. I mean, it does a lot of things. Right? It increases the cost of those goods, but then it also hurts the economy, GDP. Like, you know, people aren't gonna be spending as much money.
So, you know, jobs are gonna be at a loss. It's just gonna compound. But one of the interesting posts I saw, this was a couple days ago. Obviously, it's probably back up to normal now, but Elon Musk lost, like, a hundred and thirty billion or, you know, whatever it was. It was like a third of his net worth you know, a billion Yeah.
Over the span of, like, a couple days. And he was, you know, one of Trump's biggest supporters. So it's like, those guys can't be super happy if I heard this either, Kenneth. Who who knows? Maybe like he sold and then bought back in the day before.
Well,

Matt Glen: I was trying to think, like, last night, I'm like, who is winning? It just seems like there isn't anybody besides, like, people, like, taking, like, political points that is actually happy about this. Like, it just seems like everyone's mad about Yeah. It just feels like it'll lose, lose, like, is there someone making a lot of money? Like, I guess, if you're betting on market fluctuations, probably make some money right now, but, like, it's just crazy.
And then how it affects us? Like, is the real estate market gonna come roaring back when these tariffs are eventually pulled off or, like, is the damage done? Like, is it slow? Like, is the uncertainty? Just kill it.
Like, how does this affect selling houses in Kelowna?

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. I I think there's a couple things there. I don't even think, like, the uncertainty anymore. Like, people are, like, whatever. They're probably over it, but they're not so worried about the uncertainty of, like, the market.
They're probably just uncertain about their jobs. You know, like, the economy is gonna really suffer on this. But to talk about, like, interest rates, So, you know, the bond market's been incredibly volatile because of this. Yes. But, you know, we saw a little bit of a dip on some fixed rates and then back up, they're moving, but they're somewhat stagnant just because no lender is gonna change their rate based on a Trump announcement that lasts for a day.
Like, you just can't do business that way. What we are seeing, though, our variable rate discounts are shrinking. So, you know, a couple months ago, like, on an insured mortgage let's just say, like, prime minus one point one five. And then last month was prime minus one, and now it's prime minus point eight five. So that discount that clients were getting is starting to shrink, which is unfortunate, but it's what lenders do on these type of times that are, I guess, more risk on their their money.
Right? Because they're expecting Mickey Canada is gonna lower rates too, but, you know, it's just overly volatile, so they gotta protect the risk a little bit and have that margin. So if you had a a variable rate, a few months ago. Awesome. You have that discount.
Bank of Canada makes cuts. You're in a great position. If you were gonna go variable in the next couple months, yeah, you might have to start to reanalyze now just because of the discount starting to shrink.

Matt Glen: So You know, like, just in my business, I think uncertainty is kinda ruling the day right now. I don't anymore. I have one still, but I had three listings all had accepted offers subject to sale, which is, like, kinda funny. Feels like people wanna move, but there's nobody, like, bookending the transactions. Right?
Like, the first time home buyers who whoever it is is just buying the house. Everyone has a house to sell. And then the development properties I have, I've had, like, a lot of people, I think, for now reach out wanting to either the seller to finance the sale or, like, remain a partner in the project. So it's just like people are just looking, like, almost more creatively. Right?
Like, Yeah. Yeah. It's not as black and white and kinda funny. Interesting.

Taylor Atkinson: I mean, I think this has kind of been our narrative for the lost of the walls. Single family homes are just gonna become scarce.

Matt Glen: Oh, yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: They are gonna increase in value just purely because no one can afford to build them right now. And, you know, a lot of that comes back to our own government with, you know, being able to subdivide and and just like the cost of land and infrastructure for that land. But now with tariffs, like, the cost to build is a huge unknown. So what builder is gonna go out and do a fifty loss subdivision when their margins twelve percent, you know, their twelve percent profit could now be a twelve percent loss.

Matt Glen: That twelve percent profit is literally a tweet away fromyard listing? Totally.

Taylor Atkinson: So, like, if you're a developer, why would you even bother at this point? You know, if you're a homeowner that wants to build or, like, you know, somebody that wants to have some land and build their dream house, it's like, is it gonna be one point four million or one point eight million to build like you just don't know? That's too much of a gamble. So I don't think single family houses are really gonna get the traction. And our guest today, Troy Froles, he's a homebuilder.
They do it all in design, GC, help with a lot of different type of projects. Really good resource. Great guy to reach out to if you have anything on the go right now. Anywhere from just, you know, medium sized renovation to a new build. But those are the guys that are gonna be, you know, penciling this stuff in as soon as possible.
But I guess without any real information, like, what do you do? Everyone's just kind of a standstill.

Matt Glen: Yeah. Yeah. It was great talking to Troy, though, knowledgeable guy doing it himself. He brought a lot to the table.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. So he kinda touches on the best things and the worst things you can do when doing a renovation or a new build. Yeah. Reach out to him if you have any questions, and, yeah, enjoy the show, guys.

Matt Glen: And this episode, like every other episode is sponsored by Century twenty one Assurance Realty. Best brokerage in town, best brokerage in the Okanagan. We're growing, grown in Kelowna, burning, cow lips, kootenies. We're here. So if you're an agent looking for a new place to land or a buyer or seller looking for an agent, give us a shout.
Love to talk to you.

Taylor Atkinson: Okay. Welcome to the Quantum Real Estate Podcast, Troy. How's it going?

Troy Froese: Good. Good. How are you?

Taylor Atkinson: Good. Thanks. We like to start our show with just what does a perfect Friday look like, other than being in my house doing a renovation. Yeah. What do you mean?

Matt Glen: So is this a lunch hour or is it that was Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Am I getting built

Matt Glen: for this? Yeah.

Troy Froese: Of course, it's fillable.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. So Troy and his crew, they are or helping out with the renovation on the other side of the house, so I can speak highly of them. Let's dive into the show and, like, yeah, what's your Friday look like?

Troy Froese: Yeah. You should try to be up early. Got a young one. So hit miss depending on the night before, but you should try to get up before her and have a bit of time to get some emails and critical stuff out of the way first thing. And then I usually try to free my morning up to spend time with her and my wife, take it a little bit slower till about probably about nine ten and then head out to, you know, check on all of our sites and and that type of thing.
So, yeah, if it's Friday, then usually back to the office, try to wrap some things up, kinda tie up the loose ends before the weekend. And then, you know, an ideal world, that's wrapping up early, but as it goes Yeah. Into the end of Friday, really just wind down, spend some time with family, you know, maybe try to do a barbecue or something like that. Yeah. Just gonna set up for the weekend.

Taylor Atkinson: Sweet. The whole approach of the show is kinda like expectations of clients, how you communicate how do you kinda set people up for success in the initial stages? Right? Because I feel like a lot of people in Kelowna wanna do renovations, additions, basement suites. They wanna add value to their home.
But, you know, where do you start? So you kinda came up with the idea of, you know, top five best things and five worst things. So, yeah, maybe if we wanna go through that.

Troy Froese: Yeah. There's a lot that goes into it. There's a lot of behind the scenes that's kind of important to think about when you're getting started. I think getting a good team in place. That's really critical.
This is my perspective. But when you start to work with a client, you're setting that relationship up and it's not, you know, just two weeks. That's a work in a relationship. And you wanna make sure that everybody aligns when it comes to expectations as well as even, you know, kind of down to personality and how you work together that way?

Matt Glen: Definitely.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. And I I will say, like, your communication's been awesome. You definitely, like, have composure that's just nice. Like, it seems like you're in control and there's no stresses, so it makes it easier for the client. But Yeah.
I know I know. Should hits the fan once in a while and Yeah. You handle the while. So obviously, that's having your your team in place.

Troy Froese: Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Next, you were talking about is set up like a realistic budget with a contingency. So how does pricing look obviously, like, cost plus is part of the program?

Troy Froese: Yeah. So that's typically how we would run most of our projects would be from a cost plus model. I feel that that's often kind of the best value for the client. You know, we could do a fix price, but, you know, in that, then maybe things are padded to make sure that, you know, some of those unexpecteds are faster, whether or not they, you know, end up showing up. So I find that if you approach it from a cost plus, then the client ends up getting what they want.
They get the value for the time and and energy that's been put into the project. Oftentimes, I hear, you know, if somebody's on a fixed price, then some people can be a little bit more quick to try to cut a corner or that sort of thing to, you know, increase the profit margin, which that's not something that we'd like to stand by. Yeah. We'd like to be transparent and and make sure that, you know, the client is getting the, like, the best value for what they're paying for.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. And I guess, I mean, we're talking about, like, an overall approach, but, like, renovations compared to new builds. Obviously, renovation's gotta be pretty tough to quote because you don't know what you're gonna get when you open up the walls. Do you have a preference on, like, what you like to work on?

Troy Froese: We do a little bit of both. I probably enjoy new construction a little bit more. There are kind of less of those kind of the unexpected. That being said, as soon as you start into the excavation, there's a hundred things that you could run upon that, you know, lead to other challenges throughout the build. So pick your challenges and go from there.
But renovations are always fun, especially if they're a little bit more tricky. Like a good problem to solve.

Matt Glen: If somebody's looking to renovate their house or do a new build, should you be the first call they make?

Troy Froese: Yeah. Between an architect, a designer, and your contractor, those should be the first people, and it would be good to have them all work kind of in sync. There's a lot of things that everybody brings to the table, and it can help. One, make a really good plan moving forward, but it can also help with the planning stages in terms of, you know, if your designer and your contractor working together, they can look at ways to make things more cost effect there can be things that, you know, as a contractor, we'll look at and go, you know, if we just tweak the design a little bit this way, it's gonna make, you know, our plumbing or electrical, you know, that much easier. And so it can make for a better overall product at the end and eliminate some of those, you know, unexpected or, you know, more expensive details that could come up in a project.

Taylor Atkinson: I guess that kind of segues into the next topic for you is invest in quality where it matters. So can you give us some examples of that?

Troy Froese: Yeah. There's lots of different products out there. The most expensive isn't necessarily the best. Usually where I would start with that is the areas that are good to really invest in are gonna be, you know, your touch point areas. So, you know, if it's a new build, I would say, you know, those areas where, you know, you walk into the home, kind of, what are the surfaces that you touch.
So that could even be, you know, stuff like your door handles, your front door. That's a that's gonna be a big statement piece. You know, you walk into your kitchen. That's, you know, the heart of the home as everybody says. So, you know, investing the money in those places, the primary bathroom bedroom wing think that's another really good spot to kinda spend some money.
And then just looking at really careful selections, I think bringing a designer into the picture can have a big impact on that because a good design with good quality products can really pull a product together and make a break it. Ken, it comes down to client preference and what they value. I've had some clients where, you know, they really want the best, you know, most expensive, some really beautiful items. But those can be challenging when it comes to, you know, thinking about maintenance down the road, you know, what happens when you know, you've got a wall mounted faucet behind a very extensive piece of, you know, courts or something like that that, you know, eventually will need to be serviced and potentially replaced. So looking at kind of a long term value of that and some people value, you know, maintenance free and ease of replacement and that sort of thing, whereas, you know, other people value kind of the aesthetic and finish more.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. The design part is, at least for me, I feel so overlooked, but like thank God I have Emily that does see a lot of the decision making on that. Do you inherently just become, like, a bit of a mediator? Also, like, a third opinion of, like Yeah. Do you like green or do you like yellow?
Like, what should we use for paint? And you're kinda stuck in between, like

Troy Froese: All the time. Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Not in this house,

Troy Froese: but No. No. You throw

Matt Glen: it in the towel a long time ago.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. I mean, I don't get Taylor's hands on. Yeah.

Matt Glen: Prior to Yeah. Just not a battle I'm willing to play.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Well, my choices are exacting.

Matt Glen: Also, we're all better off Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Totally. But I guess, yeah, like, is there a certain point where you just say, like, you know, hey, you guys should get a designer here's that we like to work with?

Troy Froese: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Like and, again, that's something that I would usually chat with our clients right from the get go. That would be one of the first things that we would discuss is, you know, is there a room in the budget for a designer?
And one of the things that I'll say even with that is, you know, a good designer can save you more than their fees throughout the course of a project when it comes to whether it be, you know, delays in material selections, that type of thing. Mhmm. So having all those details really well planned out ahead of time can definitely help streamline that and save you in the long run. So that's something that at the beginning of a project, I usually do discuss that with clang go, is that something you're open to? I mean, some projects, they just don't have the budget.
And, you know, if it's small enough or, you know, straightforward enough, some clients, you know, they know exactly what they want, and there's just no need for the selection portion. And when it comes down to, you know, your cabinetry and millwork and stuff like that, that's something I think it's always good to have a designer's input on. Yeah. But Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Well, I've been just staying up with trends and options like

Troy Froese: Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: You know, it's a pretty fast paced industry when you look at Yeah. You know, styles.

Troy Froese: It's hard to keep up.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Matt Glen: Matt, have you so talking about materials and stuff, have you felt the impact of tariffs at all yet on this? Like, are people choosing stuff made in Italy more than something made in Michigan?

Troy Froese: Haven't seen that too much. I do anticipate that that will be something that comes down quite fairly soon. A lot of building products are manufactured in the States, and so I do anticipate some definite cost increases there.

Matt Glen: Are we just gonna have all of a sudden European style all over Canada. Oh, cool. Yeah.

Troy Froese: You know what? No. We cut it right now. Yep. But I was trying to price something out last week, aluminum railing product.
And this flyer actually came back to me and said, listen, we'd love to get you pricing on this, but we don't know So we'll be in touch in a week from now when we have a little bit better idea of what's going on. So

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. That's that's gonna be a tough one.

Matt Glen: Obviously, we're very fresh into this little game we're playing right now. Yeah. But I think we're gonna see a lot of weird things coming up Yeah. You don't really realize I think you guys take them for granted.

Troy Froese: Yeah. Oh, I'm sure.

Taylor Atkinson: I'm just gonna

Matt Glen: I'm just gonna be obsolete. I'm just gonna pivot.

Troy Froese: Yeah. Challenges with getting products and the price, I think. Yeah. I mean, I have seen that a little bit here and there on a few different products where it's like, what I could buy it for three months ago is drastically different than it is today.

Matt Glen: Yeah. It's funny because it's actually more than twenty five percent because you think, like, the price was a price because they could just throw it on truck b that was coming to Canada. But now those trucks aren't coming to Canada. So now we get to pay for that Trump to ship that one thing. And then I paid the twenty five percent.
So it's like some products are gonna be way more than twenty five percent more. Right?

Taylor Atkinson: So I mean, I'm just thinking, like, on a smaller scale with homeowners that are, like, just breaking ground and they have their budget let's say even half of the material goes up by twenty five percent, that's gonna blow their budget out of the water. And then if you got a larger scale like a developer that's, you know, just pouring foundation on, like, a fifty unit place, even if, like, you know, ten percent of those materials are coming, like, how do you make it feasible?

Troy Froese: Yeah. It's definitely a big concern that I've had looking out at kind of the future of our, you know, housing market and economy and stuff like that in general. On a million dollar build, twenty five percent is a lot of money. Not everybody has that in their budget to, you know, spend in addition to. So

Taylor Atkinson: I guess this is how things evolve though. Right? Like, if you look at the positive side, it was, like, something like this comes out, people are gonna find a different material or resource. It may be more

Matt Glen: like just buy the steel straight from Hamilton.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Like, you almost need these high pressure situations that, like, you know, backs up against the wall and then you find a a better alternative solution.

Troy Froese: So Yeah. We even felt that in COVID. We started to have to look at alternative solutions, get creative with, you know, the products we were using and and that sort of thing. It was actually really interesting because sometimes there were better quality products out there that became the more cost effective options. And so you were ending up with a better overall build.
Obviously, we're still spending more. But at the end of the day, the cost between your traditional build versus, you know, going something a little bit different and getting creative Yeah. Ended up being the better way to go.

Matt Glen: You know, like, obviously, this is not where we thought this conversation was gonna go, but

Taylor Atkinson: just like never in sync.

Matt Glen: But There seems like amazing opportunities for some Canadian manufacturers and producers to, like, fill these gaps because, like, someone just breaking ground. Like, if you're doing a hundred units, you need to buy what? Like, four hundred faucets. Right? So, like, times that over everywhere.
Like, men, that's a huge Yeah. Opportunity if you wanna take advantage of it.

Taylor Atkinson: Alright. Put this on pause. We're gonna go start a manufacturing company.

Troy Froese: You're in my mind. Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: The next topic was think about function and flow. So again, that probably comes back to, like, the design, you know, working with an architect.

Troy Froese: Yeah. Working with the architect and really kind of asking the questions, like, you know, how am I gonna use the space on a daily basis? But how is it gonna be used, you know, two, three years down the road? Are you a growing family? Are they gonna be more kids?
Is there a need for a home office at some point? Recently had a client we helped with an addition. That was one of the things they were looking to use it for, you know, their home business. They needed to create some extra space that way. And so that was kinda one of the things we discussed is, you know, well, we can size things and set it up so that it's, you know, very, you know, strictly business based, or we can, you know, make allowances for certain things so that down the road, it's, you know, an easy conversion to a secondary suite.
Or, you know, it's just additional, you know, it's a nice flow to, you know, two or three additional bedrooms in a bathroom to your home. So it adds that square footage and value for you down the road when, you know, should you decide to sell or, you know, you're not you're not using it in that way anymore. So I think that's something that's really important and a lot of people do overlook that is they're like, you know, we wanna do this and this is what it's for, but thinking about that future use how are some of the ways that you might wanna use it in the future and what can you do to kinda make so that it's, you know, workable for those items as well and also looking at, you know, potential resale.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Well, I was gonna say that that's where you'd tag in somebody like Matt or real estate agent to do a CMA and say, like, you know, hey, comparables in this area, like, if we added this extra bathroom, yeah, it's gonna cost x for the client. But, you know, they are looking at moving in five years, you know, would that be a worthwhile investment? You know, so that's something good to look at.

Troy Froese: Yeah. Definitely.

Taylor Atkinson: And then your last one for best things to do would be planned for future maintenance and upgrades. I think that's a big one as well. Like, you just you don't know the cost of things until, like, things start to break down on you.

Troy Froese: Use an example of, you know, the type of decking that you use. You can go with better quality product that carries a warranty that's, you know, less prone to break down from UV and weather and stuff like that or you can, you know, spend a lot less and just do, you know, something with wood, that type of thing. But as we live in the Okanagan and it gets hotter and hotter every year, it seems wood does not hold up very well. And so when you look at kind of over the next ten years, what's your maintenance cost on this product versus spending a little bit more upfront, but having some thing that's gonna weather a lot better and has those warranties. Those are always good things to kinda consider and look at and kinda weigh out.

Matt Glen: Yeah. I love it. I see that you have heated driveways here. What can you do to prepare for that? It's a great question.

Troy Froese: I'm like, whoa. Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Getting sick of shoveling. Yeah.

Matt Glen: I know. I actually I love shoveling. But we only had to shovel, like, once or twice this year. Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: I think I only shoveled once this year.

Matt Glen: I couldn't use at least ten times that many.

Troy Froese: Yeah. I hope for sure. With that one in particular. When you're going through your rough end stage, it would be like both both renovation and new construction. But kind of making those allowances, you know, things you have to consider there.
Is there a power requirement for, you know, sensors and stuff like that? Are you gonna get that stuff back into the home once it's completed? So having the room, you know, if you need to put in a boiler, running water lines and stuff like that. So if those are things as you're kinda working through that design phase where, like, you know, maybe it's not in the budget right now, but, you know, down the road, we'd like to put in a gate or, you know, we'd like to, you know, do a heated floor. We wanna throw in a hot tub or a pool in the backyard looking at, you know, the things that you can do during construction to get things you know, close to those areas so that it's roughed in so that Yeah.
You know, down the road, you're not having to carry your house apart or dig up, you know, your entire yard and driveway just to make allowances and install those items that can save you immense.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Kinda funny thinking about houses from, like, thirty years ago. It seems like a long time ago, but not a lot has evolved in, you know, the use of a home. But in terms of, like, when you look at renovating a thirty year old home unit,

Matt Glen: why did they ever do this?

Taylor Atkinson: Like, why would a kitchen be enclosed? Like, It seems like the trends change. So I'm curious now, you know, in, like, thirty years, we're gonna look back on this house and be like, why

Matt Glen: is this we should open?

Taylor Atkinson: Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Glen: I'm supposed to see this.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Let's get into the juicy part. So five worse things you can do with the renovation or build.
First one, you have listed underestimating costs and timelines. I mean, isn't this just a given? Like, doesn't everyone underestimate? Yeah.

Matt Glen: Okay. Under estimate. So you gotta think you can do a kitchen for five thousand. After for two thousand. Yeah.
He's not here. He didn't drive away for about forty five hundred.

Troy Froese: Yeah. Fifty five hundred. Yeah.

Matt Glen: And then afternoons. Yeah. Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: So, like, that's gotta be a tough conversation to have.

Troy Froese: It can be. There's often a lot of sticker shock because and there's a lot of items that, you know, go into doing, you know, a renovation or a new build that a lot of people, you know, they're just not aware of. Let's say you're doing innovation and you start, you know, tearing out walls and stuff like that, you know, maybe you end up having to remove gravel on the ceiling to, you know, rework your electrical. Now you're starting to trigger some code requirements and that's just one kind of small example where when you start to touch stuff, pull it apart. Well, now you have to you bring it up to today's code.
And there can be a lot that goes into kind of making those upgrades just to get you back to, you know, let's say, drywall stage where you can actually put your kitchen back together. Mhmm. So lots of items like that.

Taylor Atkinson: What do you kind of see difference in renovation costs and new build costs? If somebody's looking to pretty much, you know, got a house, rip down the dry waterless studs, is it gonna be effectively the same cost just because the labor to get a demo done? It depends on

Troy Froese: the bones of the house. I would say that there's some houses out there that you're better off to just bulldoze it. By the time you bring everything up to today's code and, you know, bring it back to what you want. The total dollar figure will definitely be last than, you know, building new. But if you look at the value add to your property over time, you can look at it's a, you know, brand new house.
It's got the warranty. It's got, you know, new finishes. You're not gonna be looking at needing a new roof anytime soon, that sort of thing. Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: That's a really good point. I mean, even just on the resale side, like, if you're listing a house that's brand new compared to, like, a nineteen seventies house that has had, like, a great facelift, it's still on title a nineteen seventies house with some, like, you know, components that are not fully updated, you know.

Troy Froese: Yeah. The struggle that I often see is people they wanna do the renovation. They find a really great location. And, you know, they're willing to spend the money on doing the renovation, but The thing that they run into is the older homes aren't designed in such a way that makes it, you know, cost effective to do the types of modifications that they want. You know, if you've got, you know, a very rectangular, you know, nineteen seventies build trying to go in and, you know, fall ceilings or, you know, anything like that.
It's They can't We

Matt Glen: never wanna do that.

Taylor Atkinson: What are you talking about? This isn't a nineteen seventy six, by the way. You told me it was a good idea.

Troy Froese: I think it's a great idea. And I think that there's a lot of value add, but, you know, things like that, a lot of people have expectations for, you know, a renovation that, you know, in some cases, just aren't achievable. Mhmm.

Matt Glen: Yeah. Just wanna go back to this cost. Like, who you call first? So you call you first, and then you talk to a designer, you get a plan strong, an architect.

Troy Froese: Yeah. So there's lots of different ways to do it. The way that we try to approach things with our client is we try to kinda do that, call it, one stop shop. Yep. So you get in touch with us, then we'll coordinate.
So I like to sit down and, you know, have a really in-depth conversation with a client. Okay? You know, what is the vision for this project? What is it that you're looking to achieve? How can we help bring that together?
And then from there engaging, you know, we work with a number of different architects. Everybody's got, you know, different styles, you know, usually try to work with somebody that's gonna be able to kind of bring the client's vision to life that way. Oftentimes, it'll end up being us engaging with the client and then sitting down and having those conversations together because knowing from the get go of, you know, how the client wants to use the space, some of the things that they wanna, you know, accomplish with it, can kinda streamline that, then, you know, I can have some conversations with with the architect about, you know, whether it be structural details or, you know, moving walls, that sort of thing, what's feasible on the mechanical side of it, you know, what sort of allowances do we need to make? And that can really help kind of bring, you know, what's possible full with the home, kinda back to the client, then from there, we can really put together a good game plan.

Matt Glen: So, like, somebody calls you and says, I have a hundred thousand dollars and I want it renovate x y and z. Talk to you. Talk to the planner. Get a plan. Come back and then you say, okay.
This is gonna cost, like, a hundred and forty thousand. To do this work with you to cut out forty thousand of that. Like, how does this process work to get It seems like

Taylor Atkinson: a very specific question. Okay. Matt is the client.

Matt Glen: It's from experience. So I ran into this and it's Yeah. I would just never fully understood Is that part of it?

Troy Froese: That's a tough question to answer. Yeah. But on spot here.

Taylor Atkinson: So I want a hundred and forty thousand worth of renovations Yeah. But I don't

Matt Glen: like You don't know, like, the average person has no idea what a hundred thousand dollar renovation is. Yeah. Right. Like, is that a kitchen? Like, honestly, in my experience, that's a kitchen.
Right? Or is that a bedroom wing?

Troy Froese: So usually, I would kinda start off with, like, a really high level budget for them. So we have a look at space, kinda chat about what they wanna do. I would put together something, you know, really high level and say, you know what, if we wanna move forward with this, then, you know, let's actually do some deeper investigation. Let's have a look into, you know, what's your electrical capacity in your home before adding, you know, another bathroom and, you know, a bunch of extra lighting and that sort of thing. Is that gonna trigger the need for, you know, a service upgrade?
Is there stuff with your, you know, septic, again, you know, adding bathrooms is a big one starting to add a whole bunch of fixtures? Do you have an outdated septic system that really, you know, should be updated to connected to city sewer.

Taylor Atkinson: Even like the water main. So we had to update the water main here Yeah. Just because we're adding a bathroom. I was like, you kidding me. You're not gonna use any more water

Troy Froese: Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: You know? But, yeah, you're right. Like, I I did not and display that.

Matt Glen: Yeah. That's interesting.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah.

Troy Froese: I mean, we do our best to kinda cover all those spaces. So our process would be engage with the client. Let's have a conversation. Let's understand, you know, put together a really high level budget. Then at a very high level, we can kinda discuss, you know, this is way more than we thought it was gonna be, you know, where can we scale back?
And then we start having those, you know, conversations about, you know, a lot of it's gonna depend on the fixtures. You know, these are, you know, some of the things from, you know, a code requirement and municipal requirements that are gonna need to be done. So those are, you know, things we can. By John, working from there, whether it be reducing, you know, cost of finishes, reducing the square footage in the areas that we're working with and trying to kinda get into that ballpark.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. I'm just kinda laughing in my head because you guys ever watched Lovett or Listtt? Yeah. Yeah. This seems like Lovett or Listtt thing.
Like, you know, Jeff wants to stay. He wants to renovate these three sections of the house, but they're over budget. Yeah. He's got a cut one and the other ones again.

Troy Froese: Yeah. I mean,

Taylor Atkinson: I guess, yeah, it just comes down to that.

Matt Glen: It is super expensive to look like everything is

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. This is a good segue and your next point is changing the scope midway through. How does that? Happen.

Troy Froese: Often that can come from kind of a lack of a good plan. It could be anything from, you know, we get started into something we we put a plan together. You know, we hope this never happens, but, you know, maybe there was a different expectation between, you know, what the client thought the space was going to look like if we made the certain changes. Or, you know, it could be you know, maybe it is budgetary restraints. You know, let's say we did run across something.
That can be challenging because you need to stop. Can I take a step back? Go, okay. Well, what are the things that are gonna be impacted here? What needs to be kind of rework taken apart?
That sort of thing so that we can, you know, start to move forward. That can have huge budgetary repercussions, and it can also impact your schedule in a big way.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. I imagine time would be the biggest one right here. Yeah. Yeah. And then skimping on structural elements was number three.

Troy Froese: Yeah. That's not something that we would ever do.

Matt Glen: Well,

Taylor Atkinson: that's just gonna throw everything off. Right? Then, like, walls aren't squared. Yeah. Dry walls pop and the other things just don't fit properly.

Troy Froese: No. For sure.

Taylor Atkinson: And, yeah, we're not saying you do any of these. These were just good clients. So Yeah. The next one which is obviously a no no ignoring permits and inspections.

Troy Froese: Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: I would assume, like, a lot of people that wanna do, like, a small renovation would never think of a permit. Right? Like

Troy Froese: It is shocking, actually. Some people just aren't aware. There's other people out there that's a small project where, you know, who's gonna know sort of thing and And so those conversations can be kinda difficult because, you know, oftentimes, it comes down to kinda educating a client, you know. You can do it without a permit. That's not something we're gonna be able to work with you on, but you do choose to move forward in that direction, you know.
There are some potential risks that you're taking kind of in the long term, whether it be somebody that's willing to, you know, move forward with that. Are you getting, you know, really good workmanship? And if not, then, you know, if you do have an issue down the road, are you gonna run into, you know, trouble with insurance?

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. This is a super interesting one because Do you see it very often, Matt, where, like, you're selling a home, and there's a flag saying that the renovation that wasn't done to code or permanent or anything?

Matt Glen: In the city file? No.

Taylor Atkinson: No. Absolutely. I went to finance one for a client about a month ago. And it was on title that there was, like, a by law in fraction. Oh.
Looked into it and and said, you know, ask the agent, hey, what's the by law in fraction? Oh, they did some work that wasn't permitted. And they had,

Matt Glen: like, a stop recorder or something?

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. So the neighbor complained

Matt Glen: Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Obviously, like, you know, battery you gotta have good relationships with your neighbor. Yeah. I don't know to the extent of the work that was being done.

Matt Glen: Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: But we cannot finance that property. Until they finish it and bring it up to code. But now they have a by law and fractions stating that, you know, work's been complete, so you gotta start all over again. Yeah. Which is like So costly.
You know.

Matt Glen: I yeah. I think it depends on the situation. I see a lot of houses that obviously were were not

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Like, it don't change.

Matt Glen: Well and, like, it also just looks like shit. So, like, it's obvious that there's no permit. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff that I've seen, like, you look at the city file or pull all the papers on it, pull in technical safety PC, and there's no word of. So obviously, it was not a permit either.

Taylor Atkinson: So where is the liability file? Like, if your client's gonna buy something

Matt Glen: On the PDS on the property disclosure statement, you have to

Taylor Atkinson: design off and just say, are you aware of

Matt Glen: anything done without a permit? Yeah. Right? So a lot of times, yes, we did x, y, and z without a permit. So then the virus has to

Taylor Atkinson: know that. But then that

Matt Glen: might come in issue with your lender at that point. Yeah. That might definitely come up.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Insurance. Or insurance?

Matt Glen: Yeah. Insurance. Yes. Yes.

Taylor Atkinson: But I guess so if you buy that property and something comes up later on down, like, two months from now, it's like, well, we accepted the PDF. So if you're on

Matt Glen: Well, we're think about something like a non legal suite. Those are basically all by definition not permanent. Yeah. You're still buying houses. You're still financing them based on the in rental income.
Yeah. So, like, I think it's just a case by case basement or a case by case situation.

Taylor Atkinson: More basement, you're in. Yeah.

Matt Glen: Yeah. I think there's a lot more to it than that. But, yeah, like a mobile home, we basically have to have a Dutch Columbus inspection to even sell to even list one. Yeah. No.
Yeah. Yeah. I would not be surprised see that come in to regular houses too. But Yeah.

Taylor Atkinson: Easiest way to get sued is a real estate agent. They ain't list a mobile home. Yeah.

Matt Glen: I as a real estate agent. Yes. Yeah. There's a lot to them. Yeah.
So yeah. But we do see this all the time.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Last on the list, rushing the final walk through.

Troy Froese: Yeah. Right.

Taylor Atkinson: So I'm gonna take, like, five days with you then. How's your telling me?

Troy Froese: Yeah. Well, turn off all

Matt Glen: the lights, get the side light on this drywall. Yeah. I think it's a seat and free entry. I could. See those videos where the wall looks like perfect that you just play.
It just looks like it's one straw sitting.

Troy Froese: It's understandable whether it's a a new home or, you know, you've been renovating a space. Yep. The homeowner's gonna be excited to move in and they, you know, probably wanna put their life back together and not be living in a renovation or build anymore. But that's one of the things that I always like to kinda take a step back with because, you know, I always say, let us get in there, let us finish doing our job, you know. Let's make sure that all of the pain touch ups are completed, that, you know, everything is working.
Because once you start moving in, you know, if there's something that we need to, you know, tackle, let's say, it is a deficiency, It can make it a lot more challenging. They can also be hard to kind of really get a good grasp on, you know, what is actually left to be done. Yeah. And so that's something that I usually say. Let's get it finished.
Let's be done in the space. And then that way, we can be right out of your hair. You can move in. The space is yours. And then we're not, you know, trying to trip over each other for the next, you know, week as we, you know, try to finish up what might have been a day or two's worth of actual work.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Totally.

Matt Glen: I just happened to be have sold a lot of new units lately, so I've been doing a lot of efficiency walk throughs and, like, it has been honestly a learning experience for me. Just the different things that you catch. Like, one of them we walk through and there's just like a dozen paint issues that need to be fixed in a couple like, lights, which is, like, just minor things like that. And then other ones are just, like, lengthy lists of a lot of stuff that's wrong. I totally agree with efficiency of bathroom to be pretty ruthless when you're doing it.

Troy Froese: Yeah. And even kind of from builders perspective, I always will walk through a project as it's wrapping up. I like to do the final walk through myself. And so I'll go through and I I try to put myself in the shoes, you know, of the clients that's walking through and, you know, looking at those things because what I have experienced in the past is it can be great quality. But once somebody picks up on one or two things, one, you can't ever unsee it, and two, you will find more.
Mhmm. And so the super minor issue can turn into a full repaint if somebody starts looking too closely. Because at the end of the day, you know, a level four finish on a wall when you're standing, you know, away from it, you're not gonna see anything. But if you get right up to it with, you know, with the light and you're inspecting it from six inches away, chances are you're gonna be able to see the odd efficiency here and there, but it's not actually a deficiency.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. Let's dive into our wrap up questions here. If you could buy any property in the Okanagan in the next twelve months, what would it be?

Troy Froese: Probably building lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We Yeah.
My wife and I would really like to build their own place.

Matt Glen: So We're mostly on a good one.

Troy Froese: I like the Lord mission area. We'd like something with a view, but they're not that happens. That's

Matt Glen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. If you could give your twenty year old self any advice, what would it be?

Troy Froese: Probably, enjoy the journey and be open to taking some chances here and there. And yeah. Just love the process.

Taylor Atkinson: Nice. What's your favorite charity? Or how do you get back?

Troy Froese: I like getting back to the people around me. So wherever I can, you know, whether it be a little bit of my time or, you know, if I've got some insight or something like that that I can provide. Or even disconnecting people and, you know, whether it be an introduction or creating a new opportunity for somebody. I like to just kind of build up the community and the people around me wherever I can.

Matt Glen: Yeah. I love that. Awesome. Well, Troy's been awesome. How can Taylor or I or our listener help you?

Taylor Atkinson: Don't look at me. Yeah.

Matt Glen: How can I help you?

Taylor Atkinson: I I know the answer, yeah. Get off my back, man. It'll get done when it gets

Matt Glen: connected. Yeah. Yeah.

Troy Froese: Honestly, just yeah. Give us a follow-up. We'd love to hear from you. If you've got somebody that's looking to do a project of any sort, we'd be happy to, you know, connect and and see if we can be the right fit for them.

Taylor Atkinson: Yeah. And mostly Instagram website?

Troy Froese: Yeah. I can give you our our Instagram at frozen co, and our website is it's same w w dot frozen co dot com.

Taylor Atkinson: Sweet. Awesome. Thanks, man.