130: The Secrets of a Successful Serial Entrepreneur with Everclear Pools & Spas Deven Pakish

00:00:00 Taylor Atkinson
Welcome back to the Kelowna Real Estate Podcast. I'm your mortgage broker host, Taylor Atkinson. And I'm your commercial broker host, Matt Glen. What's happening, Taylor? And we are the hosts, moderators of a UDI event coming up in Kelowna at the Innovation Center. It is sponsored by Peakhill Capital, a big commercial lender. Yeah, we're super excited about it,


00:00:18 Matt Glen
excited about it, actually. So it should be a good one. It's pretty cool. We're moderating the panel event where we have three speakers. And that part, the panel is sold out. But there is room at the after party at Earl's right after on October 8th.


00:00:29 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. I think we actually have a discount code, don't we, in our email that we're going to blast out? We do, yeah. And if anyone wants to come to that event, it's going to be awesome. Obviously, a lot of developers, and there's going to be some local politicians there. Speaking about political things as well, obviously, municipal election coming up, so everyone should get out and get voting. In addition to that... Yeah, surprise.


00:00:51 Matt Glen
Provincial election as well. When I drove around the city, what I thought the city needed was more signs. That's what I thought. Totally, yeah. My God. So yeah, they're going to be doubling up here pretty soon. I've already seen Gavin Dews out. I imagine they're all coming. So we're going to have like just an amazing amount of signs out everywhere. I mean, I'm not too up to speed on the provincial campaign, but do you not think this was a massive error for NDP? I think it's massively annoying. Nobody wants an election. But I think probably is pretty politically savvy because the conservatives are all over the place. They've had people jumping ship, coming back. They are not organized for an election. So EB is just trying to get four more years while the opposition's in disarray. But it is so annoying, dude. a majority two years left and we're just now doubling down on elections all across the province to give you four more years. Yeah, I feel like if anyone was on the fence,


00:01:44 Taylor Atkinson
on the fence, you're going to lose voters just purely on that. Like the cost of an election, the annoyance of it, just like everyone knows what you're trying to do. It is not what we need.


00:01:53 Matt Glen
No, it's not subtle. We'll see. Might backfire. Like obviously everybody can vote for whoever they want. So it could definitely backfire. They're both coming up very quickly.


00:01:59 Taylor Atkinson
both coming up very quickly. Whatever your position is, get out there and vote, and then get out there and vote again eight days later. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, enough about the boring political stuff. Today's guest, I've been trying to get Devin on for a long time. So Devin runs quite a few companies. I know him from old -fashioned excavating, so he's helped me with some subdivision stuff. We've had some foundation work done up at Big White, some shallow utility stuff. admin management side of that company is wild. Like it blows my mind. The updates, the service, the communication is just so on point. And then we went out for lunch a couple months ago and he's updated me like, hey, yeah, I actually have two other companies, a castle retaining wall company and Everclear Pool company, which they are both wildly successful as well. Then we just started chatting about like what a great serial entrepreneur he is. And we started chatting about books and like the amount he's investing in. his own knowledge and goal planning. It's just a fun show that we like to have these once in a while where we bring on a guest that doesn't have to be specific to real estate. Although if you want to install a pool, if you want to subdivide a property, if you want to tie into sewer, he's obviously a great resource. But man, he throws out some wicked books at the end of the show.


00:03:17 Matt Glen
wicked books at the end of the show. You were talking about before he came on and I honestly wasn't really sure what to expect. And then he got on the show and I was just like, my jaw was on the floor. I was like, my God, that money that you're spending on your self -development is not being wasted. Yeah. Man, it's landing. That dude has got something right going on. Yeah. Like the way his mind is working is just, it's awesome. We asked him about pools and he just started rattling off all the statistics and all the, how the pool gets made and like the cost of everything. And it was just like that alone is just amazing. Yeah. He's got it pretty dialed in.


00:03:45 Taylor Atkinson
got it pretty dialed in. And if you like need a quote on something, you know, most companies like. You might be waiting a month to get a quote. He's getting quotes back like in a couple days because his systems are so dialed in.


00:03:57 Matt Glen
dialed in. And he's done it so much. Yeah, like it's amazing. That is somebody that we should support as a community. Totally, yeah. So I loved the show.


00:04:04 Taylor Atkinson
loved the show. It was great having him on. We got some more exciting news about the show. I'm looking at your office. What's going on in the office there?


00:04:11 Matt Glen
on in the office there? We've got a brand new sponsor and it's amazing. Venture Realty Corp, Venture Commercial is now proud sponsor of... The Kelowna Real Estate Podcast. Part of that deal,


00:04:22 Taylor Atkinson
of that deal,


00:04:23 Matt Glen
I got Jay Wills' office. Yeah, yeah. Just kidding. Using it for this show, but it's still his. We're very happy to have him on. Obviously, our values align. I'm obviously a part of this brokerage. It's been an amazing experience so far. I knew they were involved in the community before I joined, but then I got on here and I was just like, man, you guys are everywhere. You're doing things right. And I'm super happy to be a part of the team and super happy that they're going to be sponsoring the show going forward.


00:04:48 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. And we've done a show with them in the past, about a year ago. They were awesome to have on and we will do more shows with them. They're very tied into the commercial scene, leasing, purchasing, you know, you're obviously working there. So yeah, we're really excited to be collaborating with the right people. And in addition to that, you know, we did kind of highlight this on our last show, ARG Contracting. We are also sponsored by them now as well, which we're super stoked about. Adam will also be coming back on the show, I think in a few weeks. So we're excited for that one because he's... A very genuine, transparent guy, so he doesn't hold back.


00:05:21 Matt Glen
Yeah, like it's kind of funny to be sponsored by two different companies that are both awesome guests for the podcast. Like talking to Adam is fantastic. Talking to Chris and Jay on our podcast was fantastic. It's kind of just worked out super well that way that we have basically perennial awesome guests to come on that are sponsoring the show. And Adam at ARG, like I've been driving by at Obsidian, the old Toys R Us space that they've been renovating. It's looking awesome. Home renovations, new builds, tenant improvements on commercial properties, like contracting work. He does it all. He's doing great. And since we announced last time that he was sponsoring the show, we've got quite a bit of good feedback about his reputation and everything. So it's been good to see. Super happy with where the show's going and sponsors we're getting.


00:06:03 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. And I mean, sponsorships just allow us to keep, you know, having good guests and doing live events as well.


00:06:09 Matt Glen
So it's actually kind of funny because, you know, like to run the show is not free. And like, even with these sponsors, we're almost breaking even. We're almost there. But it's been such an awesome experience. Like obviously the Kelowna Real Estate Podcast has taken off quite a bit and spending all this time with you. And now we're moderating this panel. We've broken out of the studio. So like things are looking good around here. I mean, we're doing it for the fame and the glory,


00:06:27 Taylor Atkinson
So like


00:06:29 Taylor Atkinson
we're doing it for the fame and the glory, right? Not the money.


00:06:34 Taylor Atkinson
I want to leave a legacy that I can tell my kids. Yeah, I was a podcast host. This is how you can leave it to your kids. It's like you just persevere for year after year after year after year after year.


00:06:42 Matt Glen
just persevere for year after year after year after year after year. And one day you'll break even. If you pay enough money, people will listen to you. It's all about consistently paying over time. Yeah. That attracts the people. So yeah, it's been a slog, but it's awesome to be here.


00:06:58 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. Well, we appreciate the support from everyone, obviously. And yeah, this is an awesome show. Dive into it. If you're short on time. Make sure you save five minutes for the end because the book list is pretty impressive.


00:07:10 Matt Glen
pretty impressive. Also, if you're going to get a pool, if you're looking at putting in a pool, you need to call Devin. If I was getting in a pool, he'd be top of the list. Yeah,


00:07:16 Taylor Atkinson
of the list. Yeah, there's nobody else for sure. I got to get him to come do my liner at our pool too. So he's an awesome guy. Reach out to him. Yeah. Okay. All right, guys. Enjoy the show.


00:07:17 Matt Glen
Yeah, there's nobody else for sure. I got to get him to


00:07:29 Taylor Atkinson
All right, Devin, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for coming.


00:07:32 Deven Pakish
Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it.


00:07:34 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, so I met you about two years ago, probably, doing an earthwork subdivision, and I was blown away by your service, communication, quote. super detailed down to the spray can that you guys like returned. And there's like a, you know, return $4 for me. Like it was just, I was absolutely like blown away. And then you did a couple other projects, but you kind of fill us in on the few companies that you own and operate.


00:07:51 Matt Glen
Like it was just,


00:07:59 Deven Pakish
Thank you. Our primary company would be Everclear Pools and Spas. We've had that now for, this is our 20th year in business. That's kind of the crown jewel. It's been the most dominant for installations in Western Canada for the last 13 years, I believe, of the 20 years in business. So that's been really cool. Those are verified from SCP distributors, the largest wholesaler in the world for our volumes of, I guess, pool kits purchased. So that's been kind of cool. It's never really a goal, just kind of happened. And then old fashioned excavating. Started that like 14 years ago, I guess. Just wanted to do cool projects and maintain a little bit more control on the job sites, I guess, if you will. And it was just cool. It was just something different to do. And then castle retaining walls. Yeah, just doing like large scale retaining walls. So we've done everything under the sun, any kind of retaining wall you can imagine. We focus more primarily on the large block. We have Material Dirt Trader, which is a free online marketplace, which is across Canada. So we're just currently working on that and lovable. So that's really cool. Basically, if you're a builder getting rid of 40 loads of material, you want to get rid of that, then you go on an interactive Google map, put that you're looking for material, and then it just shows where guys are getting rid of it. So that's a real fun project. We had Timberlake Homes. We kind of shut that down for now. And then Valleywide Generator Rentals, which we're getting into. And I think that's it. It's crazy,


00:09:12 Taylor Atkinson
crazy, man. And I didn't realize how many companies you were kind of operating until we went out for lunch a few months ago. To me, this is the Kelowna entrepreneur, like just, you know, you're running around and you execute them all so well. But it's super innovative too, like moving dirt material fill. Like it's basically just matchmaking, right? And this happens all the time. Like somebody's building a home and they need to get rid of Phil. Somebody pours foundation, they need Phil. Like why would you not have this set up? Like why was it never done before? Where'd you get the idea from?


00:09:42 Deven Pakish
Oh man, just like facilitating people's needs, I guess. It's just something kind of fun and cool and something to give back because we have had a lot of success with Everclear. So we could basically just design something that people could work together. I don't want to go too in depth on that, but end of the day, people got to work together. We all live in the city together. We all live in this country together, you know, essentially a country of immigrants. Everybody's come together to work together. So I was like, how do you, it's going to work together with people. You know, some people don't want to share gravel pits or, you know, dump sites and whatnot. So it's tough when you're the young guy or the little guy coming up, you know, where do you go? How do you go? So for everybody just to go into one marketplace and it's like, there you go, it's free. You know, we might do third party advertising later, but right now it's just basically it's free for everybody to use and just kind of see where it goes from there. Yeah.


00:10:26 Matt Glen
Have you had like an uptake people are using it? We had a couple of people and then I pulled it because once I learned about lovable and AI,


00:10:29 Deven Pakish
had a couple of people and then I pulled it because once I learned about lovable and AI, we just went like head first into AI. So I was doing that with ChatGPT and lovable. And then I got like all the framework built because we originally had a guy in Hawaii design it for us. And then once that was done, we used the model for a little bit and we had some kinks that we wanted to work out. So then we had a guy in Vancouver. He was involved in that. creation of the Vancouver facial recognition system stuff that they implemented. So anyways, we got him to come on our team and work with us a little bit. So we took it to the next level. And then that was great. And then I just was like, you know what, I'm going to go on lovable and just redesign the whole thing and just make it a little bit more sophisticated, like basically having an online chat room for all the truckers that are on it. So they can click in, click out. And I had some other guys that approached me with the same ideas. It was kind of cool how it all works together. Everybody's had the same idea. When I first started this, was the only one in the world i thought so i was like man this is awesome then like a year after like working on it we find out there's eight others once it was done it was up and running another company i looked at it was like pretty much the same and it's just funny right but it's like what eight billion people in the world people are gonna have the same ideas yeah that's kind of that i guess what drives you like i mean i love it i love like the excitement of operating new businesses but man like you must just be


00:11:39 Taylor Atkinson
drives you like i mean i love it i love like the excitement of operating new businesses but man like you must just be running 12 hour day like you got to be just no like my team's awesome like you know I have my partner Jess she's in the office and she's my right hand with everything so she just does a phenomenal job and you know she's up at 4 30 and then she works out for an hour in the morning and then starts getting her day ready and gets the kids to school and all that stuff and just naturally motivated myself since I was a kid sounds like you guys are probably the same I was always up at five and then just yeah just whatever the day unfolded in front of me but yeah I get bored quick so it was exciting and it's like I don't really do anything I do


00:11:48 Deven Pakish
like my team's awesome like you know I have my partner Jess she's in the office and she's my right hand with everything so she just does a phenomenal job and you know she's up at 4 30 and then she works out for an hour in the morning and then starts getting her day ready and gets the kids to school and all that stuff and just naturally motivated myself since I was a kid sounds like you guys are probably the same I was always up at five and then just yeah just whatever the day unfolded in front of me but yeah I get bored quick so it was exciting and it's like I don't really do anything I do stopped drinking like five six years ago now so i'm like what else is a guy gonna do yeah just keep rocking right keep busy i mean it's a superpower like you get bored like how do you convert that profitable and something you're passionate about and proud so yeah the three main companies in terms of like what you're doing in the okanagan here so obviously installing a bunch of pools retaining walls earthwork stuff you just finished up a big project so obviously there are times where like all three companies are on site together is that kind of the main thing


00:12:22 Taylor Atkinson
mean it's a superpower like you get bored like how do you convert that profitable and something you're passionate about and proud so yeah the three main companies in terms of like what you're doing in the okanagan here so obviously installing a bunch of pools retaining walls earthwork stuff you just finished up a big project so obviously there are times where like all three companies are on site together is that kind of the main thing goal to have that?


00:12:45 Deven Pakish
Not really. Honestly, Everclear was just a crown jewel. And once we started doing it, we worked with some other really great contractors. Cause there's like, I don't know, 58 other pool builders in the Okanagan or people in the industry, 58, 68. And a lot of them are awesome. They're all great as well. So with, you know, the retaining walls and excavating, like the core goal is yeah, to work together on those sites, but it doesn't matter as long as Everclear is, you know, thriving and rock and rolling, that's great. And then if we could bring the other companies in, which we did on that West side job that I showed you the video of. that was just awesome the clients were absolutely phenomenal some of the best people we've ever worked with the real cool thing now is incorporating like large block into the residential community like the lock block that's textured that's some really cool stuff it's just cheap it's a good you know you're anywhere from 45 to 65 bucks a square foot installed pending your access obviously and that kind of basically aligns with valley stone keystone allen block the smaller stuff so i like kind of i guess reinventing the wheel or being the bar setter like we used to always publicly post our prices for everything all the rates and put it online and it was just great because you get a lot of you know negative feedback from people like why are you showing this and that it's like man i got nothing to be afraid of like i'll show everybody in my numbers hence When you do a quote with us, there's 25 line items down the side, right from the paint can, you know, 15 % markup on all supplies and materials. If it's a big block or whatever block, that's just cost because you can go to Ronan, you can get the same price that I do. So everything else is just your standard rates, whatever they may be. But it keeps it easy, keeps it simplistic, and it's just total transparency. And don't get me wrong, I've had issues and hiccups, and I've learned a lot of stuff over the ways. Like in the swimming pool industry, it's like the biggest thing in swimming pools, the biggest downfall that everybody gets pissed off about. thing is in the event that you hit rock water or clay your excavation budget of say $14 ,000 on a 1632 pool excavation can double to triple and that's like the biggest thing and nobody ever hears unfortunately the double to triple they hear the 14 ,000 but anyways little things like that I guess just yeah it's crazy.


00:14:42 Matt Glen
How's the market right now for putting in pools?


00:14:44 Deven Pakish
The market's tough. Like I see distributors giving their stats out, man, it's down. Like, I don't know. I want to say probably like 30 to 40 % or so. Yeah, it's crazy. It's hit hard. So if guys aren't like marketing and advertising and just constantly, like you get a phone call, you answer the phone. If somebody wants you to come do a quote and you go there within an hour to two hours, you get the quote done within two to three hours, you have it submitted. Then at the Friday, you're doing, you know, email, text and a call. And then next week, same thing. You're doing a follow -up, you know, just keep. pound in the pavement. But if you're not innovative or creative or, you know, just out there to get it, then yeah, you'll fall behind. Is the runway in the Okanagan,


00:15:20 Taylor Atkinson
the runway in the Okanagan, like, where does it end? Because I feel like there's a lot of homes here that have pools. We're probably not building like a ton of single family homes anymore. Like, is there still room for homeowners to invest? Or is that the limiting factor of like, I don't want to say saturation, but like, you know, pools per home, is it starting to cap out? Or is it the fact of like, economically, people just don't have the capital to invest in a pool?


00:15:43 Deven Pakish
Yeah, that's a good one. It's the weirdest thing because in a recession, I guess if I can call it that, it was what we're in. It's like people start investing money into their properties. So it's like pools almost go up. But, you know, when everything's booming and all the new houses are going and everybody's putting in a pool, it is easier. When you're selling a house that's, I don't know, 1 .5 million or more with a pool, it helps to sale the property. Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of people that don't want a pool because that, you know, annual maintenance, if you're spending, you know, on average, whatever, 2 ,500 bucks a year on annual maintenance, that's a cost. And if not more, you know, liner lasts you 10 years now. So it's going to cost you 45, 5 ,500 bucks. for your conventional steel wall vinyl liner pool. Depending if you're going fiberglass, you know, that's just going to be more of an upfront cost, like 25, 30 grand. But I mean,


00:16:26 Taylor Atkinson
mean, tough question, I guess. But like generally, what would a pool cost? Not hitting rock, water, just like the cookie cutter. What does it cost to install a pool?


00:16:34 Deven Pakish
it cost to install a pool? So a 1428 rectangle vinyl or steel pool with your pump heater filter, salt system, OmniLogic salt system, I guess, two current collectors, sacrificial anode, performance, winter safety cover liner, two jets. two main drains, like everything, all the bells and whistles with the four foot micro exposed deck, 1428, six foot deep pool, you're going to be about 87 ,500 bucks. And if you jump up an extra, say to a 1632 pool, which is a legal eight foot deep diving pool, then you can add about $5 ,000 on top of that. Like, and if my business partner was here, he can rattle this shit off like way crazier than me. He's phenomenal.


00:17:09 Taylor Atkinson
me. He's phenomenal. Oh no, he's, yeah, he's on another level,


00:17:13 Deven Pakish
but the team, they're just killing it. They're awesome. Right. But yeah, that's kind of your, general price range for something like that yeah i think it was about a year ago we dug into some stats with dean actually for pools and i think it was just over 100 grand like increased value like if we're comparing you know average single family home oh that's cool yeah that's cool there is obviously like a bit of a margin there like obviously you're installing a pool for you know family use not because you're looking for resale but


00:17:18 Taylor Atkinson
i think it was about a year ago we dug into some stats with dean actually for pools and i think it was just over 100 grand like increased value like if we're comparing you know average single family home oh that's cool yeah that's cool there is obviously like a bit of a margin there like obviously you're installing a pool for you know family use not because you're looking for resale but clearly it helps on the resale side of things well and with that too like just not to mislead anybody like 87 500 for 14 28 rectangle also people are going to essentially double that deck because that's a four foot deck like we don't do three foot deck we don't chintz out on our quotes either we don't you know keep out the salt system and you know have like no heater like we just don't do that shit i hate that stuff it's like it's easy it's clean it's simple yeah just laid out as simplistically as possible so then when you do get a volume or an influx it's just easy that's awesome man


00:17:38 Deven Pakish
well and with that too like just not to mislead anybody like 87 500 for 14 28 rectangle also people are going to essentially double that deck because that's a four foot deck like we don't do three foot deck we don't chintz out on our quotes either we don't you know keep out the salt system and you know have like no heater like we just don't do that shit i hate that stuff it's like it's easy it's clean it's simple yeah just laid out as simplistically as possible so then when you do get a volume or an influx it's just easy that's


00:18:04 Taylor Atkinson
awesome man I love it. So in terms of like what you're doing from an innovation point of view now, like to run the businesses, you get some business coaching, you're connecting with other entrepreneurs. Like where do you go from here? It seems like you could just kind of sit back and let these things run and hire the right people. But where are you in five years, 10 years from now?


00:18:23 Deven Pakish
Yeah, right now we're doing some business coaching with James Playford of the performance group. And like, he's absolutely phenomenal. It's funny. You always like read about it or hear about it. And guys are like, oh, it saved me like 10 years. And then since we joined a year and a half ago, yeah, literally like advanced my career 10 years, took a lot of stress off, pressure off, essentially just, you know, you go on your Google Maps to get to an address that you want to get to. It's kind of like when you write out your goals in life, you know, that's the roadmap to get to your goals and getting a business coach essentially is just, you know, expires you there faster. So I guess right now for me, just what do I want to do? just heavy ai integration and see where that can take me and just make everything so easy and simplistic that it just flows but the best thing is by you know essentially realistically reducing the time that we're going to be spending in the office like jess's role and jason's role like legit we're going to save about 40 percent all said and done because like we're talking about before i have claude integrated on the new mac that i just bought and then you know created a lot of cool skills within the projects we had it ask me 240 questions so it could harvest all that information from me so now it knows everything about me but in a way it's like become my best friend if you will and it's just it's awesome it's limitless But it's kind of sad, too, because you can see like how jobs will easily be replaced, because essentially when somebody new comes on, they're probably going to ask you, you know, a series of, say, 500 questions to learn the job, you know, through and throughout. So with AI, if you, you know, give it 500 tasks to do, then it's going to know it inside and out. And, you know, it's not going to go through the webs and flows that humans do. But that's kind of sad, like when you can see it, like when you really, really see it. But it's. Yeah, the flip of the coin, right?


00:19:58 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah, hopefully it takes away the jobs that people don't want to do or like sucks your energy, right? Like I know you and I were talking about this before. There's tons of stuff that you can, you know, have AI help with. There's just an energy drain on you and then you can provide better service in other areas.


00:20:12 Deven Pakish
100 % getting out in the field. And like, that's the biggest thing is once we can, you know, knock off 40 % of that, well, shit, we can go to the field more. We could be around the guys more. Like it sounds bad, but they don't want me really overshadowing all the time or micromanaging and all the guys are. phenomenal they know what they're doing so we set them up we get them all rocking and rolling and then we can go you know go off to other things or if a site does need extra help then we can get in there so yeah it's been cool it's a huge positive right across the board well the customer service that you guys can provide like you know we had some water regress at our place at big white through the foundation like the runoff there gets pretty wild called you like you were up there in a day had a quote the next day like shovels in the ground like it was wild how fast you can act


00:20:38 Taylor Atkinson
the customer service that you guys can provide like you know we had some water regress at our place at big white through the foundation like the runoff there gets pretty wild called you like you were up there in a day had a quote the next day like shovels in the ground like it was wild how fast you can act So I'm very happy to be like, yeah, like whatever AI is allowing you to get up there faster and get a group faster. Why not?


00:21:03 Deven Pakish
That was fun. Customer service is wild. It's exciting to do that for you as well, too, because the project we did on the West side for you, like same, like in like that. you know, A -class tier of clientele, just like you're in the A -class, you've been phenomenal right from the beginning. And, you know, there's extra adders that come on in certain situations, which nobody can essentially, you know, foresee, like, well, educate people that, yes, you know, when you hit rock, water, clay, or have some unstabilization on the hillsides, yeah, you kind of have some issues, but you're understanding with that. But I guess as I'm thinking about that, that just comes around circle to educating your clientele from the get -go. And that's kind of the cool thing with AI adoption is new guys in the business, old guys in the business or medium guys in the business everybody has that power now to educate everybody a little bit better but we do notice on any of the quotes that we go to. Cause like last year I did 234 quotes. The year before that I did 274 quotes. And then with like, it's kind of cool with AI, just harvesting that information and we can just count the quotes that we did anyways, but helping like focus on designated areas. Like, what do we want to do? Do you want to be more successful? It's like, you know, you focus on a certain category of that. So like Valleystone, Keystone, Allen block, Magnum stone, block, block. VerdeBlock and Gabion Baskets, instead of doing like all that stuff, we just want to focus on the big block more. So we want to be essentially a lock block specialist with Magnum Stone and VerdeBlock. And if we can do that, but that's where AI is like kind of helping us to re -strategize alongside the business coaching.


00:22:26 Matt Glen
Yeah. Customer facing AI?


00:22:27 Deven Pakish
No, not yet. Like we're getting there. Like the next thing will be. I guess if that counts, like granola on the watch, and then going in and asking our clients for permission. I don't have it on here yet, but that will be shortly. So basically, when I do walk into a meeting, granola, it's locked to my phone. Then my computer's sitting at home on force open. And then basically, I'll just go into the meeting. We'll talk about everything. Hey, we're going to do a 1632 rectangle pool vinyl over steel. Our access is either an A, B, or C. So it's an A, so it's easy. So that's just going to be your standard excavation. Because like excavation, if you have two dump trucks and excavation, excavator, skid steer, and a guy on site, that's a lot hourly. Essentially, you could be 550 bucks hourly. So on a 10 hour day, you're $5 ,500 for the day. That adds up. So you have to be mindful when you are getting quoted on that stuff. What's it really going to take? How many trucks, skid steer, excavator? $5 ,500 a day. So that's like two to three days. That's, you know, 10 to 15 ,000, just like that. One extra day because of access, that could be an extra 10 to 11 ,000. So that's just things to be mindful of. I saw actually a competitor had a really cool ad it was awesome he did a great job and he's like the three you know things we're going to do one to combat that or just educate the public but his ad was great but just talking about you know three big concerns so yeah it was cool to see yeah well and I will say like at the end of every day there's photos there's an invoice it's broken down like exactly what's done like


00:23:41 Taylor Atkinson
well and I will say like at the end of every day there's photos there's an invoice it's broken down like exactly what's done like Honestly, you don't get this kind of service at a restaurant. Like it's like, boom, 5 p .m. rolls around. Here's what happened. You know what's going on. Here's the cost of what happened that day. Next day, same thing, same thing. So there's not like a huge surprise like two weeks later where you're like, well, why wasn't I involved in this conversation, you know? Okay, well, in terms of like entrepreneur success, what would you do differently if you had to start over?


00:24:10 Deven Pakish
you had to start over? Man, that's crazy. It's funny when I think about that because it's like, yeah, what do I do differently? What I did good, I guess, is like I went really slow from the beginning because I started off from the ground up. So that was like the best. Yeah, I just basically started doing like one to two pools my first year and the next year was three pools. So it gave me that time to grow in every avenue, which was really good. In the beginning, it was so good for like the first like five, six, seven years. It was just easy. It was fun. It was like it was actually like perfect. It's like more so later in life. What I wouldn't have done, I guess, is like I wouldn't have expanded into so many different categories because like when we saw excavation. we saw that we were able to help the clients really well. Because when you'd get certain people, you know, it had one guy with a skid steer loading a gravel truck, but he'd made a ramp out of dirt to load the gravel truck. And the skid steer in a pool excavation, that's essentially like the heartbeat. That's like the heart pumping the blood to everything. Like that's everything. Because as quick as you can get material out of the yard to the gravel trucks to get it gone, like that's everything that's limitless. So when you have a machine that's too small, say your bucket's one third the size, what's going to take you X amount of more time? but I guess I wouldn't have built up the excavation side so much maybe, but it's tough to say. Cause that's like, man, that's tough. Cause you know, our biggest, we were like five excavators, three skid steers, a gravel truck, a mechanic, which was great doing a bunch of stuff. It was cool. But then that was with the boom growing. And then after the boom, we downsize now just a two, two man cruise. So three hoes and a skid steer, which is like comfortable. I got my life back. Plus with Everclear, like, I don't know, our biggest, I guess we're 33 guys throughout all the companies. Now I think we're 13 and that's like, that's perfect. a good size it's manageable you even wouldn't mind being a little bit smaller but it's kind of like works together perfect two excavation crews one crews doing lock block or you know big block retaining walls all year round the other crews facilitating ever clears needs so it's kind of like the perfect mix actually what would i have done differently number one i would have got a business coach from day one hands down bar none i would have read like books and understood everything more and i would have got a business coach and i would have done a strap plan i would have done a three to five year strap plan like my goals i do one, three, five, 10, 15, 20, 25. Since I did that crazy changed my life when I did my 25 year goals. Cause I was like, I don't know.


00:26:18 Taylor Atkinson
know.


00:26:20 Deven Pakish
Dude, huge. Cause I was like, I don't need 10. Like, don't get me wrong. I wanted to have like 10 rental companies and three commercial buildings. I still would, but I was like, I'm in for that so hard. And then, so you take your foot off the gas. It's crazy how much faster things come. Right. But yeah, if I would have had like an actual plan and I would have done like, say a one, three, five year plan and like maybe a 15 year plan that would have changed a lot of things but yeah it's hard to say there's been so many things yeah any like big mistakes yeah yeah yeah i had a impact gun and i was screwing all the screws in around stair strip second year in business i think


00:26:45 Taylor Atkinson
any like big mistakes yeah yeah yeah


00:26:47 Deven Pakish
i had a impact gun and i was screwing all the screws in around stair strip second year in business i think Battery was dying and I didn't know it. So basically I should have just hand tightened all the screws and it would have been good. Yeah, we finished the pool. The pool leaked and then we couldn't find the leak. So we ripped out the deck, ripped out all the lines after we pressure test them. And then we're just like, let's just start from scratch. And there's a lot of trial and error on that. We pressure tested it and the pressure tester wasn't working. It was just a bunch of bullshit in the beginning. My fault, 100%. So ripped out the deck, ripped out the lines, replumbed it. pressure tested before we backfilled as we did the first time that passed and we put a new deck on and then pressure tested everything again that passed and we still had a leak and we're just like what the heck but it's just inexperienced it's my second year in business it was a rookie mistake so another contractor came in you know saved the day so i had no money at the time just had a motorbike that was worth like 7 500 bucks so i went to the client i'm like here's this that's basically a shirt off my back so he's like hey i'll take it so i drove it over to his house he gave me a beer we signed the contract the paper's over and then drove me home and it felt so good though because it just doesn't make it right but that was the best that i could do to make it right yeah the guy gave me a a bit of my pride i guess back so i didn't feel like such a piece of shit i mean that's like all business owners but that's got to be one of the hardest things is to be accountable and just raise your hand and be like


00:27:59 Taylor Atkinson
mean that's like all business owners but that's got to be one of the hardest things is to be accountable and just raise your hand and be like It's my mistake.


00:28:08 Deven Pakish
How do I fix it? It's kind of easy, though. Naturally, it's just like, hey, man, I screwed up. It's on me. I've never had a problem with that, I guess. But yeah, sometimes. It's such a long -term play,


00:28:16 Taylor Atkinson
It's such a long -term play, right? A lot of business owners are a bit short -sighted where it's like, hey, I have nothing. How do you fix something when you have nothing? But for you, it's like, here's the bike. You know, that's a solution that some people might not think of.


00:28:28 Deven Pakish
A door three is what we call it. Like with the coach, I love like just the way his brain works. There's door number one, door number two. And then we're like, you know, trying to scheme and think what's going on. And he's like, or door number three. And you're like, holy shit, I never thought of that. Yeah.


00:28:41 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. I mean, related to like my business, like it's funny, right? Like I came from fixing helicopters and everyone says, well, like it's not parallel to mortgages, which it's not. Super cool. The solution orientated mind like you have, right? If you're out in the field. field, you come up with problems every single day, right? Equipment's breaking down. It's like, how do you fix it? It translates well to running a business. Like there's always going to be issues with customers or quotes or something. And like, you got to be able to present a solution pretty quickly. You're avid reader, top 10 books. You got a list for us?


00:29:14 Deven Pakish
us? Yeah, I do. Just so I can remember them. First book, Never Split the Difference, Chris Wass. That was awesome. That was like just kind of learning how to profile people. And, you know, I don't care about the mirroring and stuff, but like knowing that people out there are maybe intelligent enough to like be doing that to you. Yeah. Just how to detune a situation, if you will. So somebody's like really upset and whatnot, you know, three different voices, the midnight DJ voice or the fast voice or the calm and soothing. But yeah. Number two,


00:29:42 Taylor Atkinson
two, great CEOs are lazy.


00:29:45 Deven Pakish
Yeah, that was cool. That basically just showed me how setting up good processes and letting them play out, I guess, if you will, not trying to physically tackle everything myself, but utilizing the strengths of everybody else on the team. So that's what I learned about that.


00:30:00 Taylor Atkinson
Nice. Yeah, this is a great one. Traction.


00:30:03 Deven Pakish
Yeah, that was a game changer. I had a lot of notes on that book. I can't even remember where to start with that one. Yeah, give me a lot of motivation and inspiration with just how to like run business and do business better. Were you reading these books or you read them once?


00:30:15 Matt Glen
you reading these books or you read them once? I read all those ones just once.


00:30:17 Deven Pakish
ones just once. Some of these I listened to. So I just started like just only reading lately for the last two and a half, three years. But before that, I just did all audio books, which was great. I really liked it. And then after I listened to so many, I just kind of fell off of it. So by reading, I knew that I would obtain more. It's kind of peaceful. Like in the morning, I'll wake up and then I'll read for 30 minutes and then I'll just put the book down. And so that's cool. And then you're thinking about that all day. And you almost get to savor the book. Like right now I'm doing Marcus Aurelius meditations. And that was really cool. You know, I hear like people when they're in their 40s, they start thinking about stoicism more. And that's just been a really cool book for me. It's like what the average Canadian lives to 78 years old. So, you know, I'm 42. So my years are getting limited if I make it to that. But I kind of think of everything. It's like, all right, like, you know, I have enough. I've done enough. I could die tomorrow. And the only thing that I haven't done yet is just raise my kids. So I'm like, yeah, it's like I'm. good yeah number four buy back your time with Dan Martell local yeah yeah that was good man that was cool we actually got a calendar and then we incorporated Jess and my trips on that and the trips that we do with the kids and we just put a huge calendar on the wall marked out all the fun days birthdays and stuff so the kids check it every single day and yeah that was a really cool book for implementing the calendar and then uh yeah just buying back your time just where to put the money and the time into it was phenomenal yeah yeah it's a great one uh the compound effect yeah just how little things add up


00:31:09 Taylor Atkinson
number four buy back your time with Dan Martell local yeah


00:31:13 Deven Pakish
yeah that was good man that was cool we actually got a calendar and then we incorporated Jess and my trips on that and the trips that we do with the kids and we just put a huge calendar on the wall marked out all the fun days birthdays and stuff so the kids check it every single day and yeah that was a really cool book for implementing the calendar and then uh yeah just buying back your time just where to put the money and the time into it was phenomenal yeah


00:31:33 Taylor Atkinson
yeah it's a great one uh the compound effect yeah


00:31:36 Deven Pakish
just how little things add up So everything compounds. So yeah, a little bit of work every day, reading 10, 20, 30 pages a day. Yeah. Just how that adds up to a full book at the end of the week is pretty cool.


00:31:47 Taylor Atkinson
Built to sell.


00:31:48 Deven Pakish
Built to sell by John Warlow.


00:31:49 Taylor Atkinson
John Warlow.


00:31:50 Deven Pakish
That was cool. I never thought about selling my business until I think a couple of years ago, you know, once we started doing the coaching and I was like, oh, that's what a lot of people do when they get a business. I actually built it to sell. It never crossed my mind. So then. That's been a huge transition for us over the last couple of years. Just everything we're doing is getting it ready to one day sell. Be cool to see it outgrow me and take off to the next level. But that was, yeah, that was a good book. I really enjoyed that. It was just, yeah, it was wholesome.


00:32:16 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. So meditations, this is what you previously talked about. Yeah. Next one. Yeah. I read this years ago. This was great for me as well. Men are from Mars. Women are from humans. Yeah. The communication. Yeah.


00:32:29 Deven Pakish
Yeah, communication. So yeah, I read that one way back. So yeah, it was cool. It was good.


00:32:33 Taylor Atkinson
It's interesting to see. It's like our podcast, right? on real estate but we obviously go on like different tangents and different guests and you know same with these books that circles back a lot to just dealing with people and yeah relating to them yeah yeah this is probably one of our most spoken about books is rich dad poor dad from fiyosaki yeah that was way back in the day so yeah it was just cool yeah yeah the richest man in babylon yeah yeah yeah good one and ego is the enemy yeah that was a good one for me in the beginning because i think i started when i was 22 ever clear


00:32:53 Deven Pakish
yeah it was just cool yeah


00:32:55 Taylor Atkinson
richest man in babylon yeah yeah yeah good one and ego is the enemy yeah


00:32:57 Deven Pakish
good one


00:33:00 Deven Pakish
that was a good one for me in the beginning because i think i started when i was 22 ever clear So yeah, Ego's Enemy was good. I had one guy that I know in town, a local entrepreneur. He's an awesome guy. We actually partnered up with Everclear Water Division at one time. Yeah, he told me once because I was being an asshole. He's like, hey man, he's like, check your ego. And yeah, this is funny. He checked me on that. So I read the book and that was an eye opener.


00:33:21 Taylor Atkinson
that was an eye opener. So I was like, oh shit. Yeah. That book was for me. Yeah. Backhand me buy some of that book as a pregnant. Yeah. I'm trying to tell me.


00:33:25 Deven Pakish
for me.


00:33:30 Deven Pakish
I called him years later. I was like, thank you, man, for saying that. And yeah, he's a cool dude.


00:33:35 Taylor Atkinson
Yeah. Yeah. There is a ton of good information in there. Yeah. I love it, man. Yeah. Well, we're kind of in like to the wrap up stage, but obviously how do people find out about you? Obviously, if somebody wants to build a retaining wall, do any excavation work. put in a pool or can they find out more about you guys?


00:33:51 Deven Pakish
Yeah, basically everclearpools .ca. That's where we are or castle retaining walls .ca or old fashioned excavating .ca. So everything's kind of out there.


00:34:01 Taylor Atkinson
Your Instagram is cool too. Like I love seeing the projects you guys are working on. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's awesome. What's next right now?


00:34:07 Deven Pakish
Right now, like we have the Everkind group we've created. And then we have like Everclear Old Fashioned Castle working within under that. And then like we were thinking of an amalgamation, but we don't want to lose like Google pages and whatnot. So it is better to keep those three separate entities. It does give us a really good market share in each individual category as well. So yeah, right now, I was talking to Taylor about some stuff. So I don't know, maybe we'll chat later about that. We don't know where to start, where we're going to go. I guess one thing is we are doing more openings and closings. So we got like a 20 -year tech and a 15 -year tech. So we really pride ourselves, like our guys kick ass. They're awesome, but they're like long -term guys. Our builders are phenomenal because we created a 120 -step program, how to build a pool. And then we have five to 10 subtasks within each of those, and that's integrated on Asana. So everybody's electronically engaged. So our systems are pretty limitless. But I think with that and then moving over to, I think we're going to... job tread or something that we're going to implement next i can't remember with that we really want to hit the openings the closings and the maintenance hard we've never really offered maintenance with everclear so as we're looking back we're like you know what we do want to help the people that we've built pools for and i feel like we have neglected people in the past by not doing that like we'll open your pool close your pool do like heaters pumps and filters but like for us to give like real service for like monthly service i think we're going to open that up to the public but it's tough because like i don't just want to go out there and and nothing against guys in university and stuff. They're great. They're awesome. Everybody needs a job, but I don't really want to be the one that's liable to send somebody that's, you know, on a summer job and don't get me wrong. It's like pretty simple, but at the same time, it's not, if you have like an issue with chemistry, like you're screwed, like that's major, like that's major, major. So am I going to send a university kid out to somebody's pool? It's like, hell no, I'm not going to run the risk. But anyways, yeah, long story short, us doing a full maintenance program and upping the services that we provide in the Okanagan and we got the team to do. it so i'm stoked as we're excavating we're just going to keep two crews going and just doing what we do i don't want to get bigger i don't really want to do anything crazier castle retaining walls we just want to do large scale retaining walls we do have some really good guys for the smaller block or paving stones or any of that like anybody i think we have like great sub trades with ever clear to have such a gold standard name for 20 years in business the trades that we have are dynamite one last question because like this has been sticking with me so you say you have like a 25 year


00:36:21 Taylor Atkinson
last question because like this has been sticking with me so you say you have like a 25 year goal, like what do you do to do your goal plan? Cause like I've done lots of like vivid vision was a big impact for me, but yeah, to put my head like 25 years, that's a big one. What's the secret there?


00:36:37 Deven Pakish
Like for me, all that I give a shit about is if I have like a $1 .2 million house that I live in and I have 1 .5 million bucks in the bank, like I'm good. Like I'm done. I don't need anymore. I don't even care. Like I even want anymore. So the rest that I do, I want to pump it into some really cool stuff. Like I had an idea. It would be cool down the road to start like an old folks home to do a chain, but I don't make any money in it. Just the money stays within that for inflated wages for the people that work within it. You take that right across Canada, one in every city. That's like kind of like a lifetime achievement, what I'd love to do. That's like a big goal, right? But I remember reading something years ago about some kind of a fund that was out there and it was, I don't know. like a couple trillion dollars or some shit. I can't remember. It was like unmanaged and it was like impossible for anybody to break into it some way, shape or form. I shouldn't even speak about it because I don't have the details on it, but it was really cool because like, it was kind of like an ironclad. You couldn't get into it. So it just kept generating and taking care of the people. So to have something like that, that existed, I think that would just be ultra cool. But yeah, for me, that's all I care about, man. I have the house to have that money and just like have fun toys and hang out with the kids and family and, you know, Jess and just have an awesome lifestyle. anymore i'm good sweet well that's awesome thanks for coming on obviously there's tons of good information here and i can vouch for you like obviously thank you and appreciate that all the guys on site have been wicked to work with so yeah if anyone needs a crew awesome thank you yeah and likewise guys you guys have been phenomenal and just getting to know you and uh yeah you've been amazing to work with man like yeah limitless just super cool so appreciate it thanks for bringing me on appreciate it yeah anytime


00:37:45 Taylor Atkinson
that's awesome thanks for coming on obviously there's tons of good information here and i can vouch for you like obviously thank you and appreciate that all the guys on site have been wicked to work with so yeah


00:37:56 Deven Pakish
if anyone needs a crew awesome thank you yeah and likewise guys you guys have been phenomenal and just getting to know you and uh yeah you've been amazing to work with man like yeah limitless just super cool so appreciate it thanks for bringing me on appreciate it


00:38:07 Taylor Atkinson
it yeah anytime