63: Maximizing Success with Strategic Planning & Coaching with Century 21 & TeamWorks' Max Carbone

0:00 Welcome back to the Kelowna Real Estate Podcast. I'm your mortgage broker host, Taylor Atkinson. And your real estate agent host, Matt Glenn. What's new, Taylor? What's You know, Cinco de Mayo is around the corner this weekend. What do you got planned for it, Matt? Cinco de Mayo. Dude, my head's been all around May the 4th be with you. I haven't even got to the 5th yet. yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, one holiday at a time, big plans for the weekend? probably have a taco and maybe suck back at corona i don't know nothing what do you got going emily signed us up for the cherry blossom triathlon does that have do with cinco de mayo isn't it a day the dead no idea we're having margaritas afterwards as a reward i love it i went for a swim in the pool this morning good for.

0:40 People were just running laps around me or swimming laps around me. you were at the Yeah, that was my first swim training session. Good for you. I don't know the length of the hot tub. I'm thinking 10 meters. So I probably did three lengths in there. No, it made me realize as I was like dying in the pool, how impressive it is that Emily's doing this after four months from having a baby. you know, an Olympian. So you guys the power couple when it comes to this stuff. That's just a professional athlete for no reason. Yeah. 90% of the power couples, side, summer seems to be here. So we're looking forward to it. And actually, so we talked about May 4th, May 5th, May 6th is Kelowna now best of Kelowna, which we're voted into the voting round. So how it works now is... in the final.

1:21 Yeah, essentially. We're in the final. You can vote for us. Please do. Go to Kelowna Now. And basically, we're in the podcast section, obviously. Best local podcast. We are literally putting all of our eggs in this basket. So we need to win it or our lives might end. It's that down. Yeah. is 100% a friendly popularity contest to support local businesses. And yeah, we would really, really appreciate it. Yeah. Voting is May 6th to May 18th. So you have a couple of weeks to get your vote in for us and all your other favorite businesses, but mostly us. Yeah. And we'd very much appreciate Well, voting will be live now when this episode's released. So log on to it now.

2:02 Stop listening to this podcast and just go there. That's the part. Bestof.colonanow.com. Yeah. That's where you find the magic. Yeah. And now May 4th, May 5th, May 6th, May 1st, short-term rentals, the provincial effects are now enforced starting today. So this is where we'll start seeing the fines and probably more listings in the market, condo listings. What do you think, Taylor? I'm actually funding a file in West Kelowna at Barona Beach, that short-term rental. So that seems to have a degree of activity over there. place has sold quite a few. I've of a few sales there in the last few There's definitely some changes going on. We are bringing on a rep from V Rights Association. We're recording next week with him and that will be out kind of middle of May. So definitely tune into that.

2:43 He's going to update us on basically the legal action where they're at against the province and just kind of the next steps and how the future looks in that. That'll be a good episode as well. be a fun episode. This episode was awesome. Two-time returning guest, Max Carbone, Century 21. Yeah, he was just a super interesting guy to talk to, as always. Max, I feel like you could just talk to him forever. So we started off what's new at the brokerage, what's new in Max's life, advice for realtors, for entrepreneurs, businesses. He's going to start making a business out of giving advice to businesses like that. He's done it all. He's like an honest wealth of knowledge. So when it comes on the podcast, we have to kind of figure out what direction we want to take this because there's a lot we could go.

3:30 So it's always a fun time. He's a great guest on the podcast, fan favorite. he's a super genuine guy. And so he has this business coaching, I value guess, add that he's used in other provinces, out east mostly, but he's kind of starting it in Kelowna now and really ramping up. So even if you're just like not involved in real estate and you're a small business entrepreneur, you know, he's looking value add to And businesses, right? Like he's doing it all. So give Yeah. it a listen He's today. looking to value add to And people. even bigger businesses, right? He's doing it Yeah. So give it a listen today. He's an awesome guest. If you like what he's talking about, reach out to him at any level. Yeah, he's a super approachable guy. So thanks for coming on again, Max. this episode featuring Max Carbone, like every other episode, is sponsored by Century 21. And there's a lot of good things going on over there. We now have a property management division.

4:10 So we do that too. And because of Max's help, we're leaning more into the commercial zone too. So the brokerage does it all. So whether you're a person looking to buy or sell some property or rent out some property or an agent looking to make a move, Century 21 is becoming the hub in Kelowna and it's worth a call. Century to the Okay. Thanks for joining show, Max. us. Yeah. Taylor. Thanks, Thank you so Love having you Last Yes. time was much. And Yeah. also, on. awesome. I to say thank you so much for sponsoring bat, our show. our Oh, pleasure. You know, you guys are both great guys and we have a lot of fun working with you and it's a great cause and you do a lot of good work in the community.

4:56 So it's our pleasure to support you guys. you so much. Well, yeah, we like to ask our guests to connect with our listeners. What's your perfect Friday look like? What gets you out of bed? What makes you productive? So I guess, well, first thing I've been doing this intermittent fasting thing. So, you know, I kind of been skipping breakfast. How you been doing that for? I've been intermittent fasting thing so you know i kind of been skipping breakfast how long have you been doing that for i've been doing it for two three months you know i did it a bit before the holidays too and the like and it works you know you can't have a bit more energy i've been listening to some podcasts about whether it actually there's real scientific legitimacy to it and really they say you actually end up doing a little bit better it affects your metabolism a little bit better but it's mostly you just don't ingest as much food so because you're only eating once a day right three times a day yeah but anyway you know as you get older right you got to watch the calories you know not as active as i used to be and it's good to be able to do that but it actually doesn't bother me at all but it gives me a little more energy during the morning yeah so that's what i like so i typically i don't get i'm not a super early riser kind of yeah i get up around.30.

5:47 And then I like to actually work first and then kind of exercise and play later. It's kind of my routine. So, you know, typically I'll get in, you know, do some work at home. What I love to do with, you know, our realtors is, you know, help them kind of solve some of their problems, come up with their own life game plan, get them on track so that they're productive and successful and, you know, having some fun and making some money and doing what they want to do in life. Obviously the next thing is, you know, there's administrative emails and stuff that need to be taken care of. But then again, the ideal from a Friday was then to go out in the afternoon and either, you know, go to the golf course and, you know, have some fun or go boating or in the, you know, in the winter, go skiing, you know, some sort of outdoor activity with some of our either clients or realtors and get out there and have some fun and socialize a bit. And then, you know, maybe a glass of wine or two at the end of the night.

6:29 Yeah, the is for you. Yeah, it Yeah. Well, that's why we came here, right? I don't know if I told you this, but one of our daughters used to work for WestJet. And so, Anne and I traveled across the country and said, where's the best place in the country to live? And we literally went every place from Victoria to Halifax and in between and, you know, give it our interests, right? There's no question the Okanagan was way ahead. Victoria was a distant second. Yeah. Yeah. Emily and I, well, she signed us up for like mini triathlon just here in the mission. So we went to do a bike ride the other day, just do some training. Ended up coming back with a wine membership. So you can't do anything in the Okanagan, like fully, you good for your know, body. But that's good mental health right? hey, too, Yeah. I'm also doing some intermittent fasting, but I think it's just being a new parent. You forget to eat breakfast, lunch, drink cold coffee. I have literally never had the problem to forgetting to eat breakfast. Really? Yeah.

7:09 You'll come. Yeah. We'll see. the second one. Yeah. The first one, it's okay, right? You have the second one. The Yeah. first it's one, You the second one. Yeah. The first one, you're just eating the leftovers. The second one, there are no leftovers and you're like, raspberries are way too expensive. I can't eat those. I'll save them for the Well, so we have a bit a theme today. You do a lot of strategic coaching internally with Century 21, but you do it externally as well. Yeah. Do you just kind of want to run us through? Sure. Yeah. So it started years ago, actually. I did my master's degree in business in entrepreneurial studies. It was the first entrepreneurial studies program in North America. And one of the things that I did there, I worked at and then taught management consulting at the university. And the founder of the entrepreneurial studies program was a really visionary guy. One of those guys is like, you know, 20 years ahead of his time.

7:53 And it really, you know, sparked entrepreneurial studies actually across North America. And basically what his approach was to help leaders really kind of look within themselves and figure out, you know, what their reason for being is, and then turn that into a business strategic plan that helps them achieve their both business and personal goals in life. It was a pretty out there concept, you know, and this was in the early 80s. He was playing around with that. So we started to run that, in essence, test it on small enterprises. That's what the university consulting service catered to. So we helped lots of early stage startups, small business, you know, entrepreneurs really kind of do their business planning. And we saw some really good results with very small micro enterprises. after I'd worked in commercial real estate for a decade or so, that I wanted to incorporate that activity to help more mid-growth and high-growth entrepreneurs to achieve their potential in their business careers.

8:42 So I set up a company called Teamworks and ran that business from 1993, 1994. It still makes existence. I still send a fair amount of business to my colleagues back in Toronto, but it's something we're going to be re-energizing here in the Okanagan. And it's basically a team strategic planning, coaching, support practice that helps entrepreneurs who want to build and grow their practice. This is the same methodology I use with our realtors, as you both know. And it's a process that really helps people zero in on their core philosophy, really. And there's a study done by a professor at Carleton, another one at MIT too, that actually looked at like a life study about people.

9:27 And he found that people that had a clearly defined life purpose, lived longer, had better health, had better family and personal relationships, made more money and had a better overall life score. But only about 5% or 10% of people have actually come up with what their life purpose is and what their values are. And it usually comes about as a result of being affiliated with a church or a religion. I'm not religious, but I felt that that same philosophy could apply to people. There was a book written in the early 90s that was a very successful book by Stephen Covey, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Yeah, yeah. You know, it was real kind of a groundbreaker. And he kind of touched on that a bit, you know, is that, you know, come up with that.

10:12 And so basically what I did was I took the company strategic planning process, I've helped apply it to individuals. And whether you're an entrepreneur, a solopreneur, or, you know, a homemaker, it doesn't matter, you know, whatever you do, it applies, right? You just say, hey, what am I here on planet Earth to do? Tough question to answer. There's a lot of, you know, techniques that I use to help people figure it out. But once you kind of nail it, it kind of feels like, oh, that's right. It kind of gives you your kind of your core reason for being. It just kind of solidifies what you're here to do and how to do it. And so I figured out long ago that mine was to help inspire people to realize their potential. I decided that's what I'm here on planet Earth to do.

10:54 If I can do it, great. You know, I'll do it in some way, shape or form. And there's a whole bunch of ways I could have manifested that. But for me, it was taking advantage of my interest in scales, which was helping coach entrepreneurs in business and real estate and really help people create and grow better companies and better lives in their business practices. So it's been kind of a fun journey. You know, I've had the pleasure of working with, you know, literally some of the country's most successful entrepreneurs, some of the strongest corporate leaders, union people, charities, not for profit. So it's, you know, the way they would teach in business school is do case studies. So Harvard Business School and Western's Business School, which were real leaders in this, you know, they developed the case study method and that's to learn by having some sort of a pretend case that you go through. Well, I've been fortunate in that I've kind of literally been in the meeting room with the people in real time, you know,, there's 20 people sometimes who are at war with one another, you know, to help them come up with a game plan that they all can buy into.

11:41 And you have to do it in real time and with real emotions and stuff. So a ton of fun. Doing that's pretty powerful because it really gets alignment around a common vision, a common dream. And that's what's powerful, right? You know, when someone really buys into their own, and it's got to come from within. What's the Latin? Lumen in vobis est, right? If it comes from within, right? The light is within yourself. That's what that means. Then that's the power, right? of thumb, generic question, but like how long does it normally take somebody to find their purpose? Because I mean, I haven't thought about this in years and you're right. I think like, you know, you just kind of get busy with life with life but yeah it was very much before coming back to canada like what is the purpose of life why am i here trying to find that but yeah like you sit down with someone and it takes a couple weeks of this planning or a couple years or is like obviously everyone's so how often should we look back at this how often do you it so answer taylor's question first And the process that I run people through, it takes about an hour or two, you know what I mean? Right now?

12:38 Yeah, we're not leaving this until we all it. It's pretty quick, right? And stuff. And it's a very much a one-on-one. It's not like something you can kind of just put on a piece of paper and send to someone. It really involves getting into their head and helping them get into their own head and like, I use a technique called backcasting where you imagine you're in the future and you look back, you know, you determine, you know, what are the outcomes you want from the stakeholders in your life? And then you kind of roll it up into what it is you'd like to be able to say is your mantra or your defining reason for being. Just like a company has a mission, right? Or like, you know, individuals have a purpose. And I'll give you a couple of examples, which are kind of cool. I think I've shared these with you, Matt. So one fellow that I worked with, he was a very successful turnaround leader. He would go into failing businesses and fix them.

13:19 His is to enable harmony, which is a really cool way. So you think of it like a failing organization. It's disharmonious. Think of it like a musical, you know, band is that they're not playing in tune. And this person's ability was to be able to go in there. And it was like his natural aura too. Like when you met him, he just made you feel at peace and calm and stuff. And he was a seasoned business leader and he would go into failing companies and fix them and put them back into harmony. So it was really interesting how his life purpose was congruent with what his career was. And like, and I helped him do it actually after he'd done several turnarounds and he continued to operate, you know, in that environment. Another lady that I work with, really interesting woman. She was a journalist, very successful, you know, one of Canada's leading journalists. Hers is to uncover the truth.

14:00 So if you're a journalist, right, what do you do? You go and you dig, you look for answers and you bring it and you share it to the world, right? So it was really cool, right? And it was interesting because she obviously works with words as a journalist, right? She's a wordsmith. And it was really powerful to have that discussion with her because when I helped her figure it out, she goes, that's really enlightening. She goes, I should have figured that out years ago. I said, well, you did. You just never put it into words, right? And so now is her chance to put it into words. So what it does, it's kind of like the organizing principle or the compass for life. Right. So if you follow that, then you're more likely to have a more fulfilled and prosperous existence. I guess like, I mean, obviously you find that out, but then how long does it take then to transform and like start working towards that? Cause obviously to come up with a mantra or figure out your purpose, if you knew that within an hour, amazing.

14:47 But if like, does it take years then to transform or where do you generally see people I don't know if they change. It's more like an evolution, right? Once someone sits down or determines that this is what it is. And I don't know if it, you know, it's God given or if it comes from the universe or you make it up yourself. It's one of those three. I don't know which. I'm covering my bases. I don't know which one's right. But if you pick whichever one you believe in, it is. So it doesn't matter if you make it up and this is what you want your existence to look like, then that's what you'll manifest or produce. And for some people, there's all sorts of different ways. So that first person, right, if someone's life purpose is to enable harmony, well, that person could have been a hard-nosed business turnaround guy. He or she could have been a conductor in a band, in an orchestra, could be a priest or missionary.

15:27 You know, that's what they want to bring to the world, right? So there's all sorts of different ways to affect it. So it's a life journey. And just like companies have a mission or a purpose, you know, if an individual does, then that's just shapes their general direction. But then there's a whole another layer where you kind of, you know, step back in time and you say, you know, what's the big picture vision for your life? And then what are your short and medium term goals that get you there? So, you know, it's kind of a journey. Life's a journey, right? You don't know where it's necessarily going to take you. But typically kind of the strategic planning process, if done well, it takes four to eight hours of dedicated time for an individual, three to four days for a company to do it with the senior team members. And it's extended out over periods of time.

16:09 It requires interviews and ideally some market data in advance too. So you know what the market wants and needs if you're going to do it in a corporate environment, but it's powerful. So I was fortunate because I had the chance to work with a lot of entrepreneurs given my education, I'm one too in my background. And so some of the entrepreneurs I worked with, I was able to kind of test the hypothesis that if we help the entrepreneur create his or her life purpose, and then that forms the basis of the philosophy of the company that he or she leads. And it's really interesting because what you'll see in any company, if someone buys a company, then the company starts to adopt the values and the philosophy of the leader. And they really take on the personality of the leader.

16:49 It's almost like their DNA is being injected or their spirit's being injected into the enterprise. And I think for those of you who've been in, you know, if you've seen different companies, right, you'll see that, right? And sometimes when the leader, if the leader's not good at getting the next person to take it over, then all of a sudden the DNA sucks and it's no fun, right? It goes into disparate changes because it's not the right, you know, philosophical approach. Sometimes the running of a business is almost like running a flock for a parish or I like the kingdom, queendom analogy. You know, the story you all heard as kids, right? There's the good king and the bad king, right? You know, it's the same thing, right? Businesses are more like kingdoms, right? Someone's in command and in charge and, you know, you never ever, you know, there's always lots of wars and skirmishes and stuff. But, you know, the objective in my opinion is, you know, is as a business leaders, you try to create a good kingdom or queendom, you know, make it a good place for, you know, the subjects, you know, to live and put them above you, right.

17:38 Rather than you being, you know, the king of the castle, invert the pyramid and the people are the ones you have to serve. Yeah. So is this always a work in progress? You kind of set it and work on it or like you revisit it? Typically, the purpose doesn't usually change much over time. And it's interesting. One of the things I also do is to do behavior assessments. But the life purpose, it tends to be pretty fixed over time. It can shift a little bit. But usually once people say, that's what I'm here to do, they kind of lock in on it. They don't change. We're talking about kids. Well, we had three daughters, right? And it's interesting, you know, the way they were born is kind of their personality today, right? One kind of came out kicking and screaming, and that's her personality. The second one kind of came out, she was a little quiet and happy, and that's her personality.

18:20 And the youngest one came out, you know, a little, you know, uncertain and the like, she's overcoming, but that's kind of still her personality. So it's almost like, you know, your DNA is a lot of it's already pretold. But yeah, in terms of the planning process, yeah. Ideally what you do is you revisit it at a high level on an annual basis. You kind of execute on the tactics and the execution, you know, quarterly. Organizations, that's about all you can get people to do. If you've got, you know, four or five people to get them together and review the kind of activities quarterly. And sometimes you have to do a major rethink if the world changes. Right. You know, and so, you know, depending on an organization, sometimes their market situation dynamics change tremendously. They have to change their game plan significantly. But usually the purpose or the mission is pretty firm.

19:00 It's kind of like the higher philosophical reason for being. And that doesn't change much. There's different ways you can play it out. Do have multiple purposes or the same purpose that goes in different aspects of life? Is someone going to bring the same purpose to business, to family, marriage, kids? Does it kind of spread out holistically or do you do a few different ones, like a business plan and a personal plan? what I've seen, and I think what's best for people is that you have kind of one life purpose and that you then have a different one for the business. So for example, our business one is to enable prosperity. So pretty similar, like my life purpose and Anna's, my wife's purpose is pretty similar, right? We want to, you know, help people be prosperous, achieve their potential. So our company one is we're there to be facilitators to help, you know, the people in our business sphere to be prosperous. Our clients, our realtors, you know, our staff, you know, and prosperous in the bigger sense of the word.

19:42 Yes, financially, you know, do well, but also kind of do well in life, right? And so usually like, what's and that best, also kind of do well in right? life, And the so usually like, what's best, and that's kind of a bit of the magic, especially when you get to be an entrepreneur, if it's your own life purpose and you make it, your business purpose is very similar. It's way easier to do because it just is in harmony. It kind of doesn't lack integrity because you're manifesting and doing what you want to do personally. And it just transcends into your business life. Yeah. Is that making sense? Digging out the foundational one to satisfy the Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You're talking the same thing. And I'm pretty, you know, I'm not that smart and it's easier sometimes to think of one thing than two or three. Yeah. So just basically starting the same business, but in Kelowna now.

20:25 So if someone's interested in whether it's their business or their company or just a real estate agent, what's kind of the step? They contact you, you do an assessment. Can you walk us through kind of the steps? kind of two paths. One's for the realtors. Now, we do this for all of the realtors in our office who are interested in doing it. The first thing that we do is we do a coaching assessment, which is based on a well-known behavior assessment tool called DISC, where it looks at people's dominance, influence, steadiness, and compliance. There's lots of these four-factor personality assessments out there, but this one's been really good. I've used it for 25, 30 years, not only for individuals, for realtors, and entrepreneurs, but for corporate teams to help them architect their teams. And what that does is it maps out what someone's behavior is, what they're wired.

21:09 And that doesn't change much over time. I've assessed people over 25, 30 years, myself included. I'm not much different than I was 30, 40 years ago. Behaviorally, physically, yeah. So no for me. You are what you are. There was this client, my really cool guy, Dr. Larry Cash, he developed at the time, it was the world's only statistically valid predictor of performance. This looked I think it was at, 68 different personality variables. And it could statistically tell you whether someone would fail or succeed in a role. It's called the Pathfinders. I named it for actually. him, And that's the type of assessment that you use when you hire a high-end CEO and you're doing a recruitment for a CEO to make sure he or she's the likely right fit for the entity, right? And Larry was brilliant because I asked Larry, I said, do we change much over time? You know, there's that nature nurture controversy. And his opinion, and he's got way more knowledge about it than I ever will, was that, no, we're pretty hardwired.

21:53 He said, we don't change much. Who you are from birth, you can help people achieve their potential, but their potential is limited. Someone's only got the physical capacity to run so fast and the like. And so you can help them to get to that speed. But if they don't have the genetic profile to be a world-class runner, they're never going to be a world-class runner. But they might be able to make 11 seconds on the 100-meter dash, right? But, you know, they're not built to be the 9.2 guy or gal and stuff. So, and his feeling was, and I agree with it, you know, from what I've seen is that you're somewhat pre-wired from birth. So we use that tool to kind of say, how are you wired? So are you an outgoing social, you know, being, are you more of a person who likes to have things in order? You're highly compliance oriented, right? So depending on your personality profile, you'll fit better into a position differently.

22:37 And then the next step that we do is we also look at their motivators. So what drives them? Those do change a lot over time. So someone could be motivated by, you know, economic results, money, by theoretical, which is like learning, wanting to share knowledge. Some people are really altruistic. They want to do something that's good for humanity. That's what really drives them. Some people it's around creative activities, right? Aesthetics. They love, you know, art and culture and, you know, history and design. So depending what motivates someone, you can help them create a plan that really ties into their motivators. But those do change over time. So the process is help someone understand what they're behaviorally like, what motivates them, understand their interests, and then help them map out for an individual like a realtor, you know, what's your life purpose?

23:23 What are you here on planet Earth to do? What are your values? What do you believe in? What's your code of behavior? And then help them craft their vision. What's like a farther reaching picture of the future for their lives? And that's kind of the high level starting point. And then you drop down into more granular activities. What are your goals for the future for their lives. And that's kind of the high level starting point. And then you drop down into more big, granular activities. What are your goals for the future? You know, we do a SWOT analysis too, which is, you know, what are your strengths, your weaknesses, your opportunities, your talents that we can leverage to help you achieve your life vision. Then come into the kind of more concrete, shorter term goals that someone can set. And this is a pretty disciplined process where you try and make them as specific as possible. A lot of people start there.

24:03 That's a problem. If you start at the goal setting section, but you're not consistent or congruent with your purpose, you're going to fail or you're highly likely to fail. I shouldn't say you're going to fail. You're highly likely to fail because you really want to be in alignment with your kind of reason for being and then have goals that follow from that. And it just makes life a lot more in alignment and more linked and more Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. That makes quite a bit of sense because there is a thing out there, you just set the goals and go hit them. That's what I think too, but it would make sense to look farther Yeah, and then so the further out, and that's kind of the game plan. And then of course you need the actions. What are you gonna do in the short term? So my role, especially with realtors, are solopreneurs, I'll call them, right? Whether it's an individual who runs their own businesses to help them, you know, kind of create that game plan.

24:52 And then it usually needs to be revisited six months or annually. Execution's up to the person or up to the team and the like, and it works. You know, we've seen it in our brokerage, right? People that we've done this with, they've started off and done really well and become successful very quickly. And more importantly, had a good life experience, right? They're having fun. They're helping people. They're making money. You know, that's winning in life, right? That's the game. With entrepreneurs in a different vein, right? If they're running and growing a business, it's a bit different. You run that path with the entrepreneur, but then you also do the same thing with their team. And it gets a lot more complex than a team environment because you've got multiple people, you know, I've got people are architected different ways, just like a sports team. You have to have different profiles and people play different positions. So you have to know what the market wants and needs, right? So the typical process for an entrepreneurial team coaching process is you have to first obtain the trust of the leader.

25:35 But then once you do that is you conduct a market research study, you figure out what the market wants and needs, get familiar with what the market reality is outside of the firm. Then you bring the team members together. And in many cases, you do the work one-on-one with the CEO or the leader and the team members. So they have a sense of who they are, what their purpose is. Then you create the company one. And that's the only authentic way to do it. Because a lot of people try to bring all their team together and say, oh, let's come up with a company mission or vision. But if the people haven't done the work themselves, then you can't create kind of a group spiritual bond, if that's the right term, because that's ultimately what an organizational purpose is without that individual knowing what theirs is individually, right? So it lacks authenticity, lacks integrity if you do that, right? So if you get the people together to kind of figure out what theirs is, and then you come up with the organizational one, A, it's way more powerful because it comes from the heart, right?

26:19 It's sincere or your spirit. Once you do that, then it makes a huge difference. And it's really cool to see, like, fortunately, I've seen lots of these kind of organizations and companies come together and really develop like a really powerful bond, you know, kind of collaborative working together because they do have this shared, you know, purpose, shared reason for being, you know, and they're working at a much higher level than somebody there that are just doing it for money, right? Because money is a motivator, but it's not the motivator for everyone. So when you do that, you create a really strong high level attachment to what the company's raison d'etre is. And then cascading down from that, you get into the same steps. You know, the personal planning and the strategic planning process is the same. I did a bunch of work for the International Coaches Federation and they love the methodology that I use because they said, oh, this is the personal coaching methodology, right, that I did for their organizations.

27:04 But basically it helps organizations get in alignment and then you cascade it down into, you know, what the goals are, what the specific activities are, and you chunk it out to the people. And the beauty for a leader of an entrepreneurial team or a corporate team is that this kind of, you know, session, it's usually takes, you know, two to three days off site, you know, some interviews before some stuff afterwards, but the team develops a high level vision, a shared picture of the future, a list of targets that they're all working towards. And lastly, most importantly, the specific actions that are going to help them move towards those kind of different levels. And it gets their commitment to it. And they just volunteer. So it's really cool to watch that, right? And you're in a session, you say, I'm going to do that, right?

27:45 For someone, the CEO goes, oh, I'm so glad that, you know, Barbara stepped up to do that and stuff. And it's really cool to see. And they give a date and everything. And so's really cool to And they see. give a date and everything. And so it really goes it down into a short-term to-do list. So that's kind of the starting point. And then what you do is on a regular basis, quarterly, semi-annually, or annually, depending on the organization and the dynamics and the change in the situation is you meet again, you revisit it because sometimes people change, right? Sometimes the world changes, the market changes. So you create what's called a living plan. So you have to flow with the situation. Similarly, individually, you know, we've done this a couple of times, right? You know, as you kind of have to change the game plan. I like this. I don't like this, right?

28:26 So you've got to tweak it a bit because everyone's a bit different and your experiences vary. But then by doing that, you have a continually renewed, consistent plan where everyone data checks it or, you know, fact checks it in a way and validates it and is recommitted to the plan. And as the world changes, the organizations got to change and it does. And so what I found is, as I said, I've worked with some of these clients for, you know, 25, 30 years, you know, several of them were Several of them were very, very successful entrepreneurs that built, grew, and sold their businesses. It went from 10 million in sales to 300, 400 million and the like. It was very successful companies and stuff. Some of the CEOs of some really big companies and stuff. But they started as independent entrepreneurial people that had a dream. And that's the way to help turn a dream into a larger reality and i think one of the things that i really am happiest or proudest about is that they all built really good companies like good cultures you know i think that's what we've done at our brokerage right you know none of them are perfect but hey it's good people work together they collaborate there's stuff here and there but you know for the most part good place to hang out you know have you know, make some money, treat people well, do a good job for clients and create a good kingdom or queendom.

29:35 So I've been really proud that I've been able to help, you know, some entrepreneurs and business leaders, entrepreneurial leaders. Sometimes, you know, I've worked for not-for-profits, you know, charities and stuff. And, you know, same thing. You know, they don't necessarily have to be about making money. It's about making a social change. You know, I did work for the SPCA in Ontario. It was really cool. One of my clients was, you know, like you, this guy didn't have any kids. He had multiple, you know, rescue dogs and rescue animals and stuff. He loved animals more than he liked people by his own admission, right? Don't blame him. And, you know, but he also was on the board of the Ontario SPCA and we did some work with them. And it was really cool to see the leader there who, you know, it was a lady who did an incredible job in kind of making that organization thrive. So, you know, it can manifest itself in all sorts of different So do you find there's a balance between like an achievable, I don't want to say goal, but like an achievable plan that you're implementing to an overly ambitious one?

30:26 I'm only bringing this up because when you were like, yeah, everyone has their capacity, right? Like someone is not going to be able to run a nine second, a hundred meter sprint. But I guess, how do you know that? I mean, it's an easy analogy to be like, okay, Matt and I are not going to run that in nine seconds, but how do you know at the infancy of it, like when to tell somebody in this plan, like, hey, this probably isn't going to work. You need to reel in your expectations. Or is it better to be like, yeah, let's shoot for the stars because at least you're always going to be trying to reach it. I guess you have a preference on, should you make it more more ambitious? I like the idea of like 20% over achievable. Okay. Yeah. One of the challenges, and I've personally done this, set too ambitious a goal, unachievable, underestimating the amount of time and the likelihood of it happening.

31:10 And that can be deflating. If you set a really high goal and you don't get there, it's not It's not good on your It's not good on your at the time I did this, good. psyche. ego. Now, I just dreamed it up in my own I this can be my I wrote I said, brain. said, goal. down, this is what I work The advantage towards. of having someone who's the neutral third party, ideally who's been through lots of different scenarios and can provide some sort of assessment of what the potential of both the individual and or the team is, is you can temper it. My job when I would be facilitating sessions was to do that, right? You know, you can tell a really high performing team with really strong performers that are on it, you know, that have all the right prerequisites and they're loaded for bear and ready to go.

31:51 So for those ones, it's partly experience and instinct. You know, yeah, you let them run a bit more, give them a little bit more leash, right? Just like a dog that you think, oh, this is a real athletic animal, right? He can really go, right? And stuff. And you might have a plotter, you know, and the plotter, well, you know, you don't want to set them up for failure. So there's a fine balance there. You know, I think one of the disservices you could do is give someone who has limited potential a dream that they're nowhere near going to achieve, then you're actually doing a total disservice as kind of their coach or guide or advisor. So there's a balance there. There's no real right answer. I think it depends on the talent and the capability of the individual or the team and where it can go. Pretty position for you to be in, I guess, to try and judge and analyze where they are and where they potentially could end up and kind of how much leash to give them.

32:37 Is that where, I forget the reference you made to the guy had the book that basically said, you know, we can analyze this title if someone's going to be a CEO or not. Is that where you bring in that strategy and then you kind of build out the Most people have a sense of what they can do ability like usually this is the question it's like you think that's really where you want to go you know is that really achievable and you know people will say yeah you know it might be a little more than is doable right you know so it's just you know in a supportive but caring way is kind of get them to question that. Usually people know the answer. People have a sense of their I believe. limits, You I think know, you can see right? that, Can you rob someone of their superstardom? Maybe.

33:19 You might cut someone off from something they could have been great at, you know, if you put too much of boundary on it. But I'm sure that's why it's somewhat fluid, right? Like you'll do your check-ins and go, oh, wow, they're tracking, you know, pretty well here. Maybe we should up the ante a little Yeah, exactly. And so sometimes you can do that, right? You can see, hey, they've got more potential than they knew or you thought they had. You can do that, right? I mean, that can happen sometimes, right? So that's a cool scenario when you see that as somebody, you know, there's one of our realtors market now that I'm surprised. Wow, that's great. You know, that person's doing really well. And, you know, it just wasn't expected. So it's really rewarding, right? And so the next session is, okay, you're going to hire now, if you want, right?

34:04 That's their dream, right? But as I said, it's really rewarding. I mean, to see people transform, you know, see companies, you know, kind of grow and evolve and really achieve their potential. Right. You know, there's lots of companies out there right now. I know I've done work with lots of them. Right. You know, and there's an owner there out there that's questioning whether he or she's helped that business achieve its potential. You know, they might have five or 10 years left in them to run the business and they want to take it from this level to the next level before they decide that, you know, it's time to move on. Those are fun ones to work with because usually entrepreneurs, they start and they run and they control their own business. And one of the challenges with entrepreneurs is they're too controlling. They like to be in control. They like to be in command. But there's a leadership transformation. I did my master's thesis in the evolution of the enterprise. transformation. I did my master's thesis in the evolution of the enterprise.

34:46 And so you start with the innovator, then it transitions into the entrepreneurial phase, then the managerial phase, then the administrative phase and the bureaucratic phase. So this is like the whole life cycle of a company, depending, some it could be five years, some can be 50 or 500. So the innovator is the one who comes up with the idea. It's the breakthrough. It's the aha one. I have this kind of fun slide deck that uses superheroes. So think of Iron Man. You know, he's kind of mechanically inventing the Iron Man character, right? So technically oriented is the invention. But then the next step in the evolution is the entrepreneur. And that's usually tends to be sales driven. Not always. It's just like business development oriented, right? So yeah, there's a great idea here, but it needs to get out into the world. So someone, that person usually tends to be very strong, strong-minded, strong-willed, get out there, push this thing into the world, right?

35:29 And he or she does a lot to get it out there, but that person by nature is very strong and domineering and not generally a good delegator, administrator, operationally oriented. They tend to be sales oriented, not even marketing oriented, which is different. So that's where a lot of businesses get to. And then they stop there because that founder or that business owner is a sales oriented, strong personality. And to transition and to go into the next level, it's a big transition because at that level, the entrepreneur has to become a manager. And a manager's approach is very different. A manager approach says, I got to have five people under me who report to me, not under me, but who report to me that are all eagles, you know, kind of flying in formation.

36:10 It's hard to do. The entrepreneur usually can't do that. I've worked with some people that have been able to go, you know, that whole first four or five stages, but not very many have the personality profile to be able to do that. Usually what has to happen is it has to be a handoff. The entrepreneur has to hand off the leadership of the business to the manager. So the manager is then much more systems, process, procedure. Think of, back to the superhero analogy, it's like, what's his name? In the it was the man in the X-Men, wheelchair back to the superhero know, it's what's analogy, his name? like, In the X-Men, it was the man in the wheelchair. He wasn't the superhero at all. He had the inventive capabilities, right? Xavier? Xavier, yeah, yeah, yeah. Professor Xavier, right? But he was delegating to the superheroes who had the power to do it and created a team of other superheroes.

36:51 So kind of funny, but that's the transition. And the transition is the entrepreneur and the manager don't hang out in the same bar. They don't usually connect. And the entrepreneur has to learn to give the authority and the power to the manager. And that's when the company can go from this one level to the next level. There's a quantum jump there. And it usually means a transition in the people because the entrepreneur usually had, yes, people working for him or her, right? They would execute his or her plan. And the manager has to then put in another layer of leadership that take accountability, responsibility, and then can create a team of other people that can do more, right? So it's a real transition. So the king or queen has to let go of authority and control and hand it over to someone else who can have that. Now, sometimes that person can make that shift. Sometimes they can't. Sometimes it's just not in their I guess when you say it can't, do they stay in that cycle then?

37:33 Like the one stage of the cycle or does the business fail trying to make the Sometimes both, right? Sometimes it's both, right? They don't make it. They just stay there. They just, they're living groundhog day again and again and again. I guess like, is there anything wrong with that? I'm just, I'm thinking personally, I struggle with that concept as well. I'm like, do I want to scale anymore? Or, you know, do you want to take on the extra stress and work and make that leap and have more employees for maybe a slightly better margin or maybe life balance? Or do you want to just stay in your lane and you're doing what you're doing is comfortable? Like, I guess you really need a motivating factor to want to make that jump, right? right. There's absolutely nothing wrong with staying there. So if you look at like the life of a realtor, right? Because there's a lot of realtors, honestly, that we're interacting with.

38:19 Sometimes that's a great life. You enjoy it. You do well. You're having fun. You're doing your thing. And it's great. And it's perfect. You have a good life. You're enjoying life. You enjoy working with your clients. Like lots of realtors didn't say, oh, I want to start building a team. Yeah. Right. And it's a very different activity. You're feeding the team all of a sudden. You've got a huge responsibility to do that. So it's not necessarily what they're good at or what they want to do. The scenarios that I'm thinking of too, it's like someone who's running a business and it's worth enterprise value, say $3 million. And he or she said, well, I want, you know, 7 million before I leave the business, right? A lot of times he or she doesn't have the capability to transition it to that.

39:02 Sometimes they have to kick themselves upstairs to be on the board of directors, be the chairman or chairwoman, chairperson, then install somebody else to be the day-to-day manager and then likely change the team because the team usually needs to be loyal to the then leader. So that's a tough thing to do. Have you seen it? Like when you do your, let's say, audits of companies, do you see like similar indicators or like, okay, you need to make this transition? Like I see this repetitively. What's kind of the It's obvious. What happens is good people come in and then leave, right? To the business, right? You know, they come in, they work for the person and they can't. The business sales or profitability level is pretty steady. It's been like that for five, 10 years. It hasn't evolved. It's kind of stuck at a level. The leader tends to be frustrated then. He or she's trying to lead something that needs to be managed that he or she's not wired to do.

39:44 Now, some people can learn it and figure it out and do it. And some can't. Some people need to bring someone else in. Some people need to step away and sell the business. They'll never do it. They just do much. So, and there's a business where you want to grow it, right? And the solopreneur world, you know, it's a different thing, right? Do I go into becoming a team or a business? And it's a big decision because usually the role of the leader needs to be very different, right? And your business is both. It's more, you got to be the rainmaker. You got to create an engine that drives business that feeds the others. Yeah. I when should a real estate agent build a team? Because that's probably got a ton of listeners that are agents. When do you think about that? Well, maybe it's not a when, but it's who.

40:25 It's an if, you know, is it something I something I should really do? If you have a good career, you're doing well, you like selling real estate, there's no reason to kind of change it. Are you motivated by making more money? Are you motivated by kind of coaching and supporting other people and creating careers and lives for other people? That should be the primary motivation to create a team because realistically, financially, it's pretty hard to build and grow a team, you know, that's going to do that. That's going to make you more money. And it's a lot more work. We've got, you know, some realtors in our office that did have successful teams. And so I don't like that. You know, I'd rather just do my own thing. I like to sell real estate. I like to work with clients and solve the problems and, you know, do my thing. And then when it's done, it's done. I don't want to be responsible for five other people's lives or 10 other people's lives.

41:07 Right. And like, and sometimes that's not the role. Now there's other team models, as we know, there's partnership models, you know, those work well too, where two or three people collaborate and basically spell one another off so that they can have more free time and more flexibility. That's a different team model structure. And like, so I've worked with lots of different teams in real estate. My practice is called Teamworks, you know, so I've worked for literally hundreds of teams and stuff. So, you know, and there's always different dynamics, but usually the, what I find the best motivation is they want to build something that will survive past them. You know, like our role in the business. And you've heard me say this is we're kind of more of the stewards of the business, right? We're going to take it from here to there. And then my job is to help make it better and hand it off to the next person who, you know, hopefully will do a better job than I did in terms of, you know, evolving it.

41:50 And like, so it's kind of like a handoff. You know, we had some good stewards before. The founder was great. And, you know, the lady who owned it for us was great and stuff. So, you know, we're just lucky that, you know, we're in a certain position. Anne and I have more managerial capabilities, right? So that's what, you know, we've been putting in place is kind of bringing in team members that have good operational skills and stuff that, you know, create a healthy growth environment for more people. Yeah. It's such a funny business, like the real estate agent, because you spend your potentially whole life working on this brand, on this business, investing in it. And then like when it ends, it's hard to handle. There's no succession plan. You're not telling your book of business. So maybe that's where the team comes in where, I mean, once you're successful as an agent, you've kind of built up that momentum.

42:38 Now, what do you do with it? But every other business, people are like, okay, I can market this. I'm going to, what is my net? I'll sell it for 3X that or whatever the multiplier is. And it makes sense as an agent, you are the Yeah. It's hard. Like that's the one downsides about the business is that it's very hard to hand it off. I mean, the one option you could do is find someone else who's, you know, you're a junior, you know, junior coming into the business that you see has potential. And then as an exit strategy, you bring them on board, but you'll typically only get two, three, maybe four years of, you know, once you quote retire, you know, of income from that. It's not as scalable because if you think about most people, some people are able to transform it and make it into a brokerage, right? But it's a very different business. You're running a brokerage is very different than being a realtor, right? It's a very different business.

43:18 You're running a brokerage is very different than being a realtor. It's a very different business. So some people can do it, but most people, if you look at like the very successful people, both here in the Okanagan and in other areas, the business stops when that person stops. It's built on them and their name. It's their name and their face, that's the brand. There are a few exceptions, but a few. Most it's hard that's people, the There are a few brand. but a exceptions, Most people, few. it's hard to create a brand. It takes millions and millions of dollars to create a brand. I've done work with lots of the consumer packaged goods companies and the consumer brand managers, and general foods and Molson's and Coke and stuff. And you would not believe the amount of resources and intelligence and money that goes into marketing their brands and the like. And so a lot of realtors mistakenly feel they can build a brand pretty quickly.

44:00 And it takes years and years and years for a name brand. And it's almost always, like you hear, the Stone Sisters, Jane Hoffman, these are local players who basically had very successful careers as individuals. And also second generation. Yes. Not Jane so much. Yeah, not Jane, but Stone Sisters. And then thinking Scott Marshall, like from his dad. Huge, he had like a million listings. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, that's the brand, right? It's taken years of exposure and marketing and activity. And Toronto is like Claire Estlick, who was like the queen of Royal LePage for many, many years, right? Top performer forever. Well, she was a brand unto herself. She actually worked in the area that I lived in and stuff. And, you know, when she stopped practicing, the business disappeared, even though she was the biggest brand name. You know, there's others. I remember I did work for, you know, one fellow in Mississippi, I won't say his name, but he was a really cool guy.

44:44 He's the brand. And he actually thought about retiring. And I sat down with him and I said, go take a month off before you decide whether you want to build a business, right? Or you want to retire. So he went down south for a month. He goes, gosh, I hate golfing. I hate doing nothing. I love doing deals. He goes, you know, he had no kids. And I said, go do deals, right? You don't have to leave a legacy, right? Just go and have fun. And, you know, he had like 40 people working for him, but he was the one guy team. It was totally dependent on him. Like his office, it was cool. He was in the middle and there was like five, you know, realtors around him and, you know, 10, 15 people around him. And he was just feeding them stuff, but he was there at the critical juncture of every deal. It was pretty funny to watch, right? But he said, should I grow this and, you know, take myself out of it?

45:27 And like I said, do you need money? He goes, no, I got millions of dollars. I said, do you have any kids or any family? No, I don't have any kids or any family, right? So I said, so just go and have fun. What are you having fun doing? I love doing deals. It's funny thinking of this. I'm thinking of someone like Buffini. He's got a huge corporation around him. He's still probably just a name. Yeah, well, yeah, it's still him, right? It's still him that does the training, right? You see Richard Robbins, even the trainers, Chris Leder. Yeah, yeah. It's very hard when you create, especially you name the business after yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's very hard to then all of a sudden transform it and hand it off to someone else. Yeah. Right? It's tough. Like even like Coldwell Banker. There was a guy, Coldwell and a guy banker. Right? Yeah. That started in Southern California. really? Oh, Yeah. Yeah. There was a, they were the guys.

46:09 It wasn't a bank. You know, it sounds like, oh, it's a bank corporate name or something. about Century 21? Obviously they were here before the 21st century. yeah. Yeah, So Century 21 was conceived by, I forget the fellow's name, in the States. And it started when a lot of the franchisees started. So the way real estate brokerages evolved were there were all sorts of local players, not branded, not affiliated, and like some of them grew into big players across regions or countries. There's A.E. LePage in Canada, which eventually merged with Royal. And they were at the time in Canada, Canada's leading residential real estate services company and commercial too. They had a big commercial practice, but it was a corporation with ownership and managers and staff. But then what happened was it started in the 70s, but it really kind of took off in the 80s and the 90s was that franchises appeared and their model was very different. They said, well, why don't we instead of having big corporate entities with multiple layers of management, why don't we instead have local area people, but a common brand that's on a broader basis?

46:54 So they started, so Remax, Century 21, CoBanker 2, Franchise, and several others. And what they did was they had a different model. They said, okay, we're going to have local area people who own the businesses and operate it. So they know the market, they know the people, they do the day-to-day stuff. No different than there's a McDonald's franchise or whatever, right? They're the same thing, Tim Hortons franchise. You know, you have a local person operating the business, but you have the benefits of systems and processes and procedures that are created and a brand that carries more weight than each individual one. So the vast majority of independent brokerages joined a franchise and the vast majority of the big corporate ones had to franchise themselves. So, you know, I did a bunch of work with Royal LePage over the years and they basically had to go from a corporate store, corporate entity to primarily franchised operations because the franchises came in and took most of the mid high performing realtors away from the house.

47:44 Because at the time the house split was like 50-50, you know, maybe 60-40 at best, where the realtor got 60%. And the franchises came out of the gate saying 80-20. So people who are doing already established and trained at a certain level, it was a no brainer, I'm going to go over there, right? So what happened was it hollowed out majority of high performers. When I started supporting the CEO, Simon Dean at Roll the Pages, they were losing a million dollars a week week and, you know, it needed surgery. Simon did the surgery. I kind of helped, you know, as the sideline coach guy and ran their planning sessions and stuff. But it was apparent that there needed to be major transition. And he did very successfully, you know, fix the business, turned it into a different enterprise. But it's tough to do. That's a major, major job, super accomplishment on his part. Learned a ton working with him. It was a lot of fun too. But then what happened was then the power, the evolution, it evolved to the realtors. They got more power in the channel, partly because of technology, partly because of the way rules and regulations evolved and the like.

48:28 But there's a lot more work and responsibility on the realtors part now, because before they would just sell. They would just go out, talk to people. The advertising was covered. The office was covered. The admin support was covered. It was a simpler, you know, job. Most commercial firms are still like that. Like commercial estate brokerages are like that. It's still a higher split. It's like 60-40 for the house, you know, 60% for the agent, but the house still provides most of the, you know, office marketing activities where residential realtors, you know, in order to be able to say, well, you get 80-20, but you've got to do all this other stuff, right? You got to do the marketing, you got to do the property marketing, you got to do your own marketing, you got to pay for your own business cards, you got to pay your own course and everything. And so it's very different, right? A model. And as a result, it puts more strain and stress and pressure on the realtor because the realtor has to do all of the aspects of the business, not just the sales side of things.

49:14 The realtor's life is more complicated and hence that's why the level of success for most realtors is extremely low. The average success rate in this is pretty well known. In the first two years, 80% of the people who are licensed aren't in the business and 90% in three years. They just don't make it. It's just too many new things to do. They're trying to figure out everything. And it's complicated. I mean, I've seen it, right? You've seen right? it, There's a lot of things to learn and do. And there's a little bit of an element of luck or happenstance or timing. But fortunately, we found, you know, that, you know, in our process with new realtors, we've had a much better success rate in terms of helping them become successful by helping them figure out their game plan, helping them come up with a strategy, helping them do something that makes sense, helping them figure out how to get business in the short term.

50:04 Because it's about building your own practice. It's not about getting leads or fed by the company because that doesn't happen anymore. Because they're not capitalizing. It's so unsustainable to have a business like that. Yeah. You need to have relationships. business is all about relationships relationship with other agents but like with the public with all your clients you know like that's it is yeah and as you know that's what we help people do is say and this is why that kind of assessment and coaching process you have to be genuine people can sense if you're fake right so that's the first step so that's why first step. So that's why knowing what your purpose is and kind of living by it's important. Then the next step is, is how you're wired.

50:44 What's fun. So some people are very extroverted. So those people get out and meet people, socialize, right? Some people are more systematic. So then you have to develop process and procedures to build effective relationships. You know, depending on what your motivators are, if you're motivated by aesthetic activities, art, creative stuff, go do some of that stuff. Go hang out with other people who love that stuff. If you love the arts and music, go hang out there. You'll meet people there who do your thing, who do their thing, and it's your thing. Help people find out what their interests are. So help people find conduits for them to establish relationships with people that are likely in a position to buy or sell property. And then that will then lead them into the people that are likely in a position to buy or sell property.

51:29 And then that will then lead them into the people that will really, you know, build a sustainable relationship that they have fun with. So I built my, you know, consulting practice around golf. I love to play golf, right? I wrote a book on golf and business. I have actually testimonials from Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer on it. And what I would do is I would sponsor a hole at a charity golf tournament. And I would go to the tournament where CEOs and VPs are likely to be. And I'd play a game. I'd give them a copy of my book and I'd bet them to raise money for the charity. I'd say, listen, I'm going to do a closest to the hole. If you guys beat me, I'll donate a hundred dollars to the charity. And if I beat all four of you guys, you guys donate a hundred dollars to the charity.

52:09 And they're all laughing. They're all having fun. let's go for right? Yeah, yeah, it, And so we would raise lots of money for the charity. I'd give a copy of my book. And then two or three weeks somebody later, would call me up and say, I read your book. Max, I met you at the golf day. That was a lot of fun. Let's get together. Can you help us do our planning and real estate? Yeah. Because I love to play golf. It was fun. And so it was a natural. And as a result. You good, so you never had to lose money. I was just thinking if I then I'd just rope. I'd need a lot more balls. And even if you lost, it was a write-off. It just pumped up the amount we gave to the charity. You pick a charity you care about.

52:50 But usually the guys are in these tournaments. They've had a few beers. They're not really focused on the play. Like a 17th hole. exactly. Yeah, yeah, And after the shot hole. Exactly. It doesn't right? matter, You're not going to be playing left-handed and probably beat right? them, because Anyway, they would be losing the ball. But it was right? fun, We just had a natural right? rapport, So depending on what you love to if do, you like to cycle, if you like to support charity activities, activities. You know, if you're a member of a church and you believe in that faith, engage in that, right. And serve that community. And then you'll meet people and the people will trust you because you've built a natural rapport on something that's natural and it just flows. Right. So for a realtor, that's the optimal strategy. It's the least amount of money to build those relationships. But more importantly, it's you're doing what you love to do and it's fun the authentic it's the most sustainable like i'm thinking like even like joining a hockey team or a soccer team where you just you know these people you know you're with them all the time have a good time you're yourself yeah and then like obviously you're gonna call you when they want to sell their house or whatever it is gonna make the client journey so much more enjoyable for both of you exactly imagine working with someone that you really don't align with whatsoever.

53:49 And you're just constantly having those gritty conversations. But if you align with someone and like, hey, they're on your hockey team. If your phone rings from a client that you've been referred to or you know in the past, that transaction is a thousand times better. Yeah. Because you just know them better, right? Like my wife and I talked about this after our first year. So first year out, real estate was just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, get that next deal. And you just do an audit of all the deals that you did or all the clients that you worked with. And it's like, how many of these do I actually want to work with? Right? Because like some of them were just like, oh, if you never call me again, my business will be better. Right? And then you think about this and then you think about how did I find the people I'd like to work with? And just all roads lead back to this.

54:30 Right? The same thing. Like just doing what you want to do. You find people who you like, you know, and then it's just way more authentic. And targeting in advance, like do the target market thing. So like because in my practice, it was, you know, good guy CEOs who like to golf. Yeah. I want to work with good guys, women too, right? But, you know, good guys, you know, who are CEOs, who are leaders of their business, who like to play golf because I figured, well, we'd have something in common, right? And it was kind of fun. So, you know, as you know, I sit down with our realtors and help them figure out who's your target market. And I really like to emphasize that, right? What's the type of person you want to work with, right? And usually they'll say, you know what? That's kind of good people, you know? Honest, fun, sincere, sense of humor, sarcastic, you know, whatever, you know, kind of floats their boat kind of thing. And funnily enough, it's almost always a reflection of who they are.

55:12 When you look at someone's personality profile and just got done this for years, right. It's almost always the same personality profile. So your profile, Matt, that's who you should be going with. Like people who are, you know, outgoing, fun, likable, like have a zest for life, family, you know, and like to have fun and laugh, you know, and like to have fun and laugh, you know, and like not take life. You take it seriously, but not too seriously. Yeah. You know, and that kind of approach, right? You know, and same with you, Taylor, right? You know, you're kind of honest, sincere, hardworking guy, has sense of humor, right? Like to work with people that are successful and stuff. Love doing the taxes. Yeah. Yeah, really? Honestly, my clients, if I have their taxes done, the is still stupid. the sense of part. Can you go talk Emily? I'm not understanding it. It's so much easier because the clients that I had the longest term relationship with were like that. They were hardworking, you know, they liked to have fun, but they wanted to build a great culture, you know, and they kind of worked from the heart as well as from the brain, you know, and really did, you know, some good stuff and they built really good companies.

55:59 So it's really cool to see. And the people that work for them, that's who they attracted, right? People self select, right? The people that come in, you know, they come into the organization that is shows and lives by those values. So if you have a place, you know, what are ours? Integrity, respect, community, fun, adventure, like that's who's with us, Right. It's cool. Right. And then it's an easy tribe to hang out with. Right. Cause everyone kind of believes in the same stuff and, you know, you can appreciate other people who are, yes, have a different, you know, interest, but they like to play the game the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Well, going to go into our kind of wrap up questions here, keeping it on real estate topic. If you could buy a property in the Okanagan in the next 12 months, what it be? I think that opportunity is in the commercial space.

56:45 Find a property that is perhaps under-tenanted, under-developed, under-utilized. That's an opportunity. I think that is something that I think that there's a shortage of good commercial space here. So I think that would Like commercial industrial or multifamily or commercial industrial. Yeah. It's commercial industrial, like, you know, retail, commercial, you know, industrial, that kind of mix. Cause there's a need for that. There's going to be more and more growth here and there's going to be residential development, but I think the commercial servicing of that's going to be, and it's sometimes easier because, you know, with the constraints that have been put on, you know, in terms of, I know, short-term rentals, in terms of, you know, more tenant rights, you know, commercial properties will probably be easier to manage. I don't know if it'll make you that much more money, but I think it'll be easier to manage. Yeah. Nice. If you could tell your 20-year-old self something, any advice, what it be? This is a good one. One would be, you know, invest more in real estate. Yeah. When I was young, marry the same woman that I married, which I was very lucky.

57:29 I've been very fortunate. That is major brownie points. true. I don't know if she'd say the same thing. And the third thing I think is continue to be optimistic. I always was, but you know, just if you have an optimistic perspective of, you know, things will work out, they usually do. And if you believe that things won't work out, they usually don't. So, you know, just kind of continue to have a positive belief, create a picture of the future that looks good and it'll likely happen. You know, that's one of the things that kind of saddens me a bit about what's going on, like in the media and everything is that, you know, there's just tons of, you know, unfortunately, doom and gloom out there and stuff. And, you know, and I think there's, it's time to people to say, you know what, if you have that and then you put that in the psyche of humanity, that that's what's going to happen. And so I think, you know, there's a need to kind of come up with like a positive reframe the vision for the future of, you know, people in society and the planet. I'd like, and I think maybe that'd be a cool thing.

58:10 Maybe that's the next thing to on. Yeah. But there should be like an optimistic news channel where you turn it on and it's just like the highlights of the good in the world. Yeah. There we go. Maybe you guys should do that podcast. Yeah. Yeah, No, Matt and I are too your charity or how do you get Well, we as a brokerage, Century 21's favorite corporate charity is Easter Seals. So here in the Okanagan, it's Camp Winfield, which is it's in Lake Country between Kelowna and Vernon. So we do lots of different charitable activities to support that. We're actually really proud. Our brokerage was ranked number five in Canada, number seven in North America for giving to Easter Seals out of the hundreds of Century 21 offices in North America. So that's really cool. And so we do things like charity poker tournaments. Maverick Blake's running one tonight. 10% of the pot goes to Easter Seals. We do a big one in the fall. One of our realtors, Terry Ann, does a great crib tourney that raises a bunch of money.

58:53 We support some charity golf events. There's a variety of things. Some of the realtors donate stuff, $21 on every deal. We donate some other money as the brokerage. So, you know, that's kind of the one that Century 21 does. I also do some work for the homeless and stuff. So that's kind of my personal activity because I think, you know, we're in the business of helping people find homes. And fortunately, we do well by it. And, you know, I give some of that back in terms of helping people on the homeless front. Yeah. I love I love it. So last question is how can Taylor or I or a podcast or a listener help you? Well, I a couple of things, right? I think, first of all, keep doing what you're doing because you're doing a great job, seriously, like getting out there and, you know, helping people learn and do better in a fun way.

59:33 Like it's pretty cool. Right. So first and foremost, like keep doing that because that lifts the boat for everybody. Right. You know, secondarily, you know, if there's people, you know, who aren't happy at their brokerage or they're stuck, you know, one of my favorite scenarios, one of our realtors who came to us that, you know, was not doing very well, had a really rough run and we helped him really turn around his career and his life. So that was really rewarding from a personal perspective. So there's lots of realtors out there that maybe had a tough run and they're not happy or satisfied or just not working, then give me a call and maybe there's an opportunity for us to help. And then the other thing is, and we might see this too, right? So similarly with business leaders, we're kind of launch what I did in Ontario here, which will be fun to do because it's a fun thing to do to help entrepreneurial business leaders build and grow their businesses, kind of help take them to the next level.

1:00:16 So if you hear or see companies or companies that are kind of stuck or just want to kind of get to the next level, that'd be a fun thing to do to help people get to the level. Yeah. I think it's a great model here because yeah, Kelowna is full of entrepreneurs. So yeah. newer ones, right? Like, I feel yeah, like there's a big market for that. That's Yeah. a huge percentage of So especially yeah, newer right? ones, Like, I feel yeah, like there's a big market for that. it's Yeah, a huge percentage of entrepreneurs here. Yeah. And like, and, you know, there isn't the same level of infrastructure support that there might be in the mainland or in Ontario for businesses, entrepreneurs in terms of coaches, support systems and stuff.

1:00:57 So, you know, fortunately, I've got a lot of experience in that and be fun to help, you know, some people in the local area, you know, do their thing too. Yeah. Absolutely. you so much for coming on the show and supporting us. I it very much. Yeah. No, thank you guys. It's a pleasure. My honor.